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Post by greatkingrat on Nov 27, 2012 16:09:12 GMT
I guess in Israel they must be running out of names for new parties!
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Post by markgoodair on Nov 27, 2012 18:36:50 GMT
Former Foreign Minister and Kadima leader Tzipi Livni is to make a return to politics after losing the Kadima leadership and leaving the Knesset earlier this year. She's forming a new party called "the Movement" which I have a vague memory is a name used before. Despite winning the most votes last time, Kadima is facing total wipeout. How many other parties have suffered that fate? . Canadian Conservatives? |
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 16,025
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Post by Sibboleth on Nov 27, 2012 18:47:34 GMT
Completely different situation. Israel, remember, uses absurdly pure PR.
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Post by timrollpickering on Nov 27, 2012 20:33:33 GMT
Former Foreign Minister and Kadima leader Tzipi Livni is to make a return to politics after losing the Kadima leadership and leaving the Knesset earlier this year. She's forming a new party called "the Movement" which I have a vague memory is a name used before. Despite winning the most votes last time, Kadima is facing total wipeout. How many other parties have suffered that fate? . Canadian Conservatives? No they kept two seats. |
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 16,025
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Post by Sibboleth on Dec 6, 2012 19:22:25 GMT
Latest bizarre development: Amir Peretz has joined Livni's party.
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Post by iainbhx on Dec 6, 2012 22:00:49 GMT
Latest bizarre development: Amir Peretz has joined Livni's party. WTF! |
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 16,025
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Post by Sibboleth on Dec 6, 2012 22:24:23 GMT
I know, right? The best part (perhaps even the bestest of parts) is one of the reasons he's given; Yachimovich is apparently focusing too much on domestic issues and not enough on the peace process.
lol
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Rural Radical
Labour
Now living in a Labour held ward at Borough level for the first time in many years
Posts: 1,627 
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Post by Rural Radical on Dec 6, 2012 22:59:19 GMT
I hope Bibi loses, that would be welcome!
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,889
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Post by The Bishop on Dec 6, 2012 23:06:11 GMT
Also rather unlikely, sadly.......
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Rural Radical
Labour
Now living in a Labour held ward at Borough level for the first time in many years
Posts: 1,627
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Post by Rural Radical on Dec 6, 2012 23:19:38 GMT
Also rather unlikely, sadly....... I said hope ;D No sadly he would win. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2012 0:18:20 GMT
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yamor
Non-Aligned
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Post by yamor on Dec 9, 2012 19:50:29 GMT
Are there any election system experts out there? I have quite a complex question about the Israeli system.
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Crimson King
Lib Dem
Be nice to each other and sing in tune
Posts: 9,842
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Post by Crimson King on Dec 9, 2012 20:02:06 GMT
er, I think you will find the answer to that is yes (and I don't include myself btw)
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yamor
Non-Aligned
Posts: 41
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Post by yamor on Dec 9, 2012 20:30:53 GMT
Ok then!
First question.
The Knesset Elections Law says that all the valid votes for all the lists which receive at least 2% of the total valid votes cast, get totalled. This then gets divided by 120 (the number of seats in the Knesset), and rounded DOWN, and is used initially to apportion seats.
My question is, why round down, when that could theoretically lead to too many seats being apportioned (hugely unlikely, I know, but still possible)? Why not round up, or not round at all? What gain is there by rounding down?
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yamor
Non-Aligned
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Post by yamor on Dec 10, 2012 17:16:32 GMT
Noone can help me? Hadn't even got to the complicated part yet!
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Post by greatkingrat on Dec 10, 2012 18:37:47 GMT
Technically you are right, you could theoretically get a situation where 121 members are elected. I think mathematically, this could only happen where the total number of votes is less than 14400 (120^2) so can probably be safely ignored in real life!
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yamor
Non-Aligned
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Post by yamor on Dec 10, 2012 19:54:30 GMT
I suppose you're right, and they wanted to make it simple - just take the integer part of the division.
Anyway, I really wanted to ask about the excess vote agreements that Israeli law allows for.
Basically, since they use d'Hondt to allocate the remaining seats (which favours larger parties), they allow two parties to combine just for that part of the calculation which checks for which party has the highest average and awards that party with an extra seat.
I first thought that when it then comes to allocating the extra seat between the two parties who had an excess vote agreement, it should simply go to the party which, between the two of them, has the higher average (votes/[seats already won+1]).
However, that is not what Israeli law says. What they do is divide the combined (of the two parties concerned) vote total by the total seats allocated to the two parties (including seats originally allocated to them separately with the original division I mentioned in my first question). They take the integer part of the result and use that to allocate seats to the two parties, and then use a regular d'Hondt to allocate any remaining seats.
My question is, can that lead to a different result then the method I described first?
Secondly, could that make a party lose a seat that it received originally from the original calculation allocating seats to all parties?
Interestingly, even two parties with an excess vote agreement who did not actually receive between them an extra seat with the d'Hondt part of the allocation, still get recalculated as above. Again, could that lead to a party losing a seat it was originally allocated?
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Post by greatkingrat on Dec 10, 2012 21:38:46 GMT
I think the two systems are actually the same - just expressed in different ways. Under d'Hondt if a party has say 5.something quotas it will always get at least 5 seats. So taking the integer part of the entitlement and using d'Hondt for the remaining seats will give the same result as using d'Hondt throughout.
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yamor
Non-Aligned
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Post by yamor on Dec 10, 2012 23:04:48 GMT
Yes, that I understand. My question was concerning what follows when it comes to dealing with parties who've signed "excess vote agreements". They then carry out another d'Hondt calculation just for the two parties who've signed an agreement.
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Post by markgoodair on Dec 14, 2012 19:39:56 GMT
Lieberman resigns as Foreign minister.
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