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Post by minionofmidas on Nov 27, 2022 23:03:35 GMT
Left won pretty big in Rostock in the end, 58-42. Got Green and SPD enndorsements for the runoff.
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🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️
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Post by 🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️ on Jan 14, 2023 14:33:19 GMT
The Berlin Land election of 2021 to be re-run by court order. It was apparently a bit of a shambles. It has to be held within 90 days is the latest news I've seen. A piece in the Telegraph summarising the situation reminded me that these elections are coming up on February 12th. I can't see any marathons scheduled for that date; so that's at least one step towards these being run better than their last attempt. So here's bumping this thread.
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Post by therealriga on Jan 14, 2023 19:28:19 GMT
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Jan 15, 2023 15:21:40 GMT
Minden-Lübbecke, a district in the NE of NorthRhine-WestPhalia (i would have given it to LowerSaxony): will today have elected a new LandRat. A position, that has shifted between both big parties: In the council CDU has had relative majorities in recent elections: The district's trend to the right can be seen in federal elections (compared to the average of WestGermany). Measured at 1) all eligible voters: 1a) District minus WestGermany: 1b) District divided by WestGermany: 2) only participating voters: 2a) District minus WestGermany: 2b) District divided by WestGermany: CDU is federally strong presently. But has the problem, that this byElec. was caused by their inCumbent being elevated to the RegierungsBezirk (lightred) by the regional CDU&Greens-coalition; and its candidate - the district's financeMinister - supports reducing the hospitals from 5 to 3. Apart from SPD, of course, AfD will run, too.
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🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️
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Post by 🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️ on Jan 15, 2023 17:53:17 GMT
Minden-Lübbecke, a district in the NE of NorthRhine-WestPhalia (i would have given it to LowerSaxony): It seems that the problem is that we gave the Bishopric of Minden to Brandenburg-Prussia after the Napoleonic Wars, rather than taking it for our own Hanoverian alter ego.
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Jan 15, 2023 20:54:41 GMT
Result from round 1: Obviously most from AfD will flow to CDU, but probably not quite enough.
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Post by Peter Wilkinson on Jan 16, 2023 0:10:06 GMT
Minden-Lübbecke, a district in the NE of NorthRhine-WestPhalia (i would have given it to LowerSaxony): It seems that the problem is that we gave the Bishopric of Minden to Brandenburg-Prussia after the Napoleonic Wars, rather than taking it for our own Hanoverian alter ego. Though that in turn seems to have been at least strongly affected by the fact that the Bishopric of Minden had already been secularised and handed to Brandenburg in the 1648 Westphalian settlement. Of course, precedents from the Westphalian settlement were far from generally followed in the Vienna settlement - indeed, the present boundaries of the southern German Laender seem still largely to follow the results of one of Napoleon's reorganisations, and while those didn't survive in northern Germany, Hanover did take over East Friesland, which Brandenburg-Prussia had held from 1744 to 1806. But that last particular feature seems to have resulted from our reluctance to see Prussia with a North Sea port at Emden, and we were quite willing to see Prussia not only regaining inland territories in western Germany but being handed ones it had never held before.
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Post by minionofmidas on Jan 16, 2023 0:26:50 GMT
Traffic light seems to have agreed on an election law reform. They chose the simple option - strike excess direct seats, thus capping parliament at exactly 598 members, with no changes to constituencies.
Wasn't that the AfD scheme four years ago?
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Post by mrpastelito on Jan 16, 2023 17:08:42 GMT
It seems that the problem is that we gave the Bishopric of Minden to Brandenburg-Prussia after the Napoleonic Wars, rather than taking it for our own Hanoverian alter ego. Though that in turn seems to have been at least strongly affected by the fact that the Bishopric of Minden had already been secularised and handed to Brandenburg in the 1648 Westphalian settlement. Of course, precedents from the Westphalian settlement were far from generally followed in the Vienna settlement - indeed, the present boundaries of the southern German Laender seem still largely to follow the results of one of Napoleon's reorganisations, and while those didn't survive in northern Germany, Hanover did take over East Friesland, which Brandenburg-Prussia had held from 1744 to 1806. But that last particular feature seems to have resulted from our reluctance to see Prussia with a North Sea port at Emden, and we were quite willing to see Prussia not only regaining inland territories in western Germany but being handed ones it had never held before.
It was Adenauer I think who said that the biggest mistake the UK made was giving the Ruhr to Prussia.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 17, 2023 16:26:59 GMT
Adenauer nearly became chancellor in the Twenties but (open to correction) he requested that the Rhine Province be removed from Prussia and was discounted. He was widely referred to as "chancellor of the West" whilst Mayor of Cologne).
There was a failed referendum in the Twenties to resusciate Hannover as well, but the turnout was abysmal.
Then again, both essentially occurred later. NRW represents a large part of the Rhine Province, and Lower Saxony is Hannover plus friends.
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Post by Peter Wilkinson on Jan 18, 2023 14:57:45 GMT
Adenauer nearly became chancellor in the Twenties but (open to correction) he requested that the Rhine Province be removed from Prussia and was discounted. He was widely referred to as "chancellor of the West" whilst Mayor of Cologne). There was a failed referendum in the Twenties to resusciate Hannover as well, but the turnout was abysmal. Then again, both essentially occurred later. NRW represents a large part of the Rhine Province, and Lower Saxony is Hannover plus friends. So far as your remarks on Adenauer go, events seem to have been a bit more complex than you have stated. Adenauer had called for at least the Rhine Province's separation from Prussia (and perhaps even the dissolution of Prussia) on at least a couple of occasions in early 1919, but he had to accept that both the national German authorities and (maybe not surprisingly) those of the newly-relabelled Free State of Prussia were opposed to this and he had little support from elsewhere. Somewhat ironically, considering that and much of the rest of his career, from 1921 right the way through to 1933, while continuing as mayor of Cologne, Adenauer was not only one of the Rhine Province's representatives to the Prussian Staatsrat (the second chamber of the Prussian Landtag), but also the Staatrat's president - a position which gave him some visibility outside Cologne, but not much actual power. In 1923, with the French occupation of the Ruhr (and the continuing Allied military occupation of the Rhineland), Adenauer seems to have steered rather clear of the attempts to actually declare Rhenish independence from Germany - but when that autumn, the German government under Gustav Stresemann, needing to deal with both the Ruhr occupation and with hyperinflation, abandoned direct opposition to the French occupation and concentrated economically on the rest of Germany, Adenauer seems to have started his own negotiations with the French authorities to cut a separate deal with them for the Rhine Province. These didn't get anywhere. Meanwhile Stresemann's government fell, being replaced by one with Wilhelm Marx, a Zentrum politician like Adenauer (and also from Cologne), as chancellor but with Stresemann continuing as foreign minister. Stresemann, over the course of the next year or so, did now manage to get an agreement with France that ended the occupation of the Ruhr and allowed for continued negotiations about the Rhineland. The whole thing, though, seems to have left Adenauer and the distinctly Prussian Stresemann with a marked dislike for each other. Adenauer nearly became chancellor in 1926, three or four Weimar governments later. Negotiations apparently got stuck, and Zentrum members of the Reichstag suggested Adenauer as the next chancellor. Adenauer seems to have been willing but cautious - if he abandoned his current posts to become chancellor, he wanted a solid enough government to give him at least minimal job security. His attempt to form a government, though, only lasted about 24 hours. He couldn't get a wide enough agreement between parties to get a properly viable coalition - and Stresemann's party, the DVP, made it clear that Stresemann, who had been foreign minister continuously since his 1923 government, had to continue as foreign minister. Adenauer wasn't willing - and Stresemann's reaction was to make it clear that he would far prefer to have Wilhelm Marx as chancellor. Adenauer was packed off back to Cologne, and Marx became chancellor again, for a distinctly long period (two years) by Weimar standards. So Adenauer's attempts to free the Rhine Province from Prussia don't seem to have been a direct cause of his not becoming chancellor in 1926 - but Berlin reactions to the firmly Rhenish attitudes that underlay these attempts may well have been. (And by the way, while I think I agree with you about Hannover and Lower Saxony, and while NRW makes good sense as a state - it means, for instance, that the Ruhr conurbation does not get awkwardly split - I get the firm impression that NR feels that W is slightly too Prussian and, while not agreeing, W does not feel entirely Rhenish either.)
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 18, 2023 17:48:01 GMT
Peter Wilkinson, sounds about right. I suppose we'll never get to see the records of the horse-trading. After all, he would have been one of many candidates being considered at the time. Quite a lot of correspondence went missing during his years in hiding. It was interesting that the Nazis (and Communists for that matter) attacked him as a separatist. He was a major opponent of the actual separatists, led by Dorten and Matthes. Ironically, their "Republic" was proclaimed at Bad Honnef opposite Bonn, the next village along from Königswinter, where Adenauer would take up residence. Reports from the time noted the lunatic idea of Bonn as a credible capital city. (His house/museum is well worth a visit)
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Post by mrpastelito on Jan 18, 2023 17:59:19 GMT
I much preferred the Rhenish BRD over the born-again Prussoid Germany.
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Jan 20, 2023 22:22:13 GMT
Adenauer nearly became chancellor in the Twenties but (open to correction) he requested that the Rhine Province be removed from Prussia and was discounted. He was widely referred to as "chancellor of the West" whilst Mayor of Cologne). There was a failed referendum in the Twenties to resusciate Hannover as well, but the turnout was abysmal. Then again, both essentially occurred later. NRW represents a large part of the Rhine Province, and Lower Saxony is Hannover plus friends. while NRW makes good sense as a state - it means, for instance, that the Ruhr conurbation does not get awkwardly split - I get the firm impression that NR feels that W is slightly too Prussian and, while not agreeing, W does not feel entirely Rhenish either.) Yes, the conUrbation. But, as You said, there still exists a different identity dating back to the old tribes. I would add, that NrWf is also too populous. By the way: Your country's Labour-government preferred naturally a rump-NrWf around the Ruhr without rural Münster and Minden/Detmold in the north; yet, Adenauer wanted for the same reason the actual shape and was victorious. My ideal would be Germany as a federation of 7 very strong&independent states (plus Berlin as some kind of Capital District), the 6 western ones would have a nearly identical populationSeize (~12m):
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 20, 2023 23:04:02 GMT
Not sure about that Baden thing in the West. There needs to be a Land centred in Frankfurt.
Personally I'd take what there is now and: - Abolish Bremen and drag it into Lower Saxony. - Abolish the historical accident that is the Saarland and merge it into Rhineland-Palatinate. If they really want to play at dialect speakers who have French, they can be given to Luxembourg. - Split Bavaria into Bavaria and Franconia. - Merge Schleswig-Holstein and Mecklenburg-Vorpommern into one mega-Prod coastal state with its capital at Lübeck.
Alternatively, piss off the city-states by releasing loads of HRE-era states. Not so special now, are we boys? You're the same as Dithmarschen, Goslar, Passau, and whatever is underneath Cannon Street station.
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greenhert
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Post by greenhert on Jan 20, 2023 23:18:42 GMT
I am surprised about this given how large the German Wahlkreise already are in population terms.
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greenhert
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Post by greenhert on Jan 20, 2023 23:21:34 GMT
Not sure about that Baden thing in the West. There needs to be a Land centred in Frankfurt.Personally I'd take what there is now and: - Abolish Bremen and drag it into Lower Saxony. - Abolish the historical accident that is the Saarland and merge it into Rhineland-Palatinate. If they really want to play at dialect speakers who have French, they can be given to Luxembourg. - Split Bavaria into Bavaria and Franconia. - Merge Schleswig-Holstein and Mecklenburg-Vorpommern into one mega-Prod coastal state with its capital at Lübeck. Alternatively, piss off the city-states by releasing loads of HRE-era states. Not so special now, are we boys? You're the same as Dithmarschen, Goslar, Passau, and whatever is underneath Cannon Street station. There essentially is-Hesse. Its largest city, Frankfurt-am-Main, in tandem with Offenbach am Main (forming the Frankfurt metropolitan area) provides ~37% of Hesse's population.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 21, 2023 12:16:26 GMT
Not sure about that Baden thing in the West. There needs to be a Land centred in Frankfurt.Personally I'd take what there is now and: - Abolish Bremen and drag it into Lower Saxony. - Abolish the historical accident that is the Saarland and merge it into Rhineland-Palatinate. If they really want to play at dialect speakers who have French, they can be given to Luxembourg. - Split Bavaria into Bavaria and Franconia. - Merge Schleswig-Holstein and Mecklenburg-Vorpommern into one mega-Prod coastal state with its capital at Lübeck. Alternatively, piss off the city-states by releasing loads of HRE-era states. Not so special now, are we boys? You're the same as Dithmarschen, Goslar, Passau, and whatever is underneath Cannon Street station. There essentially is-Hesse. Its largest city, Frankfurt-am-Main, in tandem with Offenbach am Main (forming the Frankfurt metropolitan area) provides ~37% of Hesse's population. I'm referring to Georg's map-as a regular visitor to Frankfurt I'm very comfortable with where it is!
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Post by iainbhx on Jan 21, 2023 13:04:42 GMT
Alternatively, piss off the city-states by releasing loads of HRE-era states. Not so special now, are we boys? You're the same as Dithmarschen, Goslar, Passau, and whatever is underneath Cannon Street station. Bring back the Imperial Villages, unfortunately I think nearly all of the Imperial Hamlets were in Elsaß, so the French would complain. Then there's the Freien auf Leutkircher Heide, the Reichstal of the Harmersbach and the Imperial Farmsteads. All of which are more interesting that the Bundesdorf Bonn.
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Jan 21, 2023 13:28:01 GMT
Not sure about that Baden thing in the West. Red strip from top left to bottom right on golden ground is not only Baden's coatOfArms, but that of Lorraine (and here not only of the recent region in France, but of the medieval duchy as a whole).
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