Georg Ebner
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Roman romantic reactionary Catholic
Posts: 9,251
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Post by Georg Ebner on Jan 21, 2023 14:02:39 GMT
Not sure about that Baden thing in the West. There needs to be a Land centred in Frankfurt. Personally I'd take what there is now and: - Abolish Bremen and drag it into Lower Saxony. - Abolish the historical accident that is the Saarland and merge it into Rhineland-Palatinate. If they really want to play at dialect speakers who have French, they can be given to Luxembourg. - Split Bavaria into Bavaria and Franconia. - Merge Schleswig-Holstein and Mecklenburg-Vorpommern into one mega-Prod coastal state with its capital at Lübeck. Alternatively, piss off the city-states by releasing loads of HRE-era states. Not so special now, are we boys? You're the same as Dithmarschen, Goslar, Passau, and whatever is underneath Cannon Street station. Apart from the difficulty of what to do with Bavarian Swabia that would reduce the number to 14 - still too many for a really federalized Germany with strong regions and a weak federal government. I see the difficulty, that Germany has a "semi-hegemonic position" within Europe, at least economically (and intellectually: in their present metaMorphosis they try to be the worldMaster of wokeness...): Too small for dominating the continent, too big for being just one among others.
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pl
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Post by pl on Jan 21, 2023 14:04:42 GMT
Alternatively, piss off the city-states by releasing loads of HRE-era states. Not so special now, are we boys? You're the same as Dithmarschen, Goslar, Passau, and whatever is underneath Cannon Street station. Bring back the Imperial Villages, unfortunately I think nearly all of the Imperial Hamlets were in Elsaß, so the French would complain. Then there's the Freien auf Leutkircher Heide, the Reichstal of the Harmersbach and the Imperial Farmsteads. All of which are more interesting that the Bundesdorf Bonn. Having never been to Bonn - but being aware of its reputation - is it really worse than Frankfurt (Main)?
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Post by iainbhx on Jan 21, 2023 14:23:20 GMT
Bring back the Imperial Villages, unfortunately I think nearly all of the Imperial Hamlets were in Elsaß, so the French would complain. Then there's the Freien auf Leutkircher Heide, the Reichstal of the Harmersbach and the Imperial Farmsteads. All of which are more interesting that the Bundesdorf Bonn. Having never been to Bonn - but being aware of its reputation - is it really worse than Frankfurt (Main)? I'll be honest, I don't like either of them much. I've been to Frankfurt several times on business and these days prefer to stay in Mainz and get the S-Bahn in and I absolutely loathe its airport and am just glad that I no longer have to travel through there a couple of times a month. Bonn, I've only visited twice and just found it dull and uninteresting.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 21, 2023 15:53:29 GMT
Having never been to Bonn - but being aware of its reputation - is it really worse than Frankfurt (Main)? I'll be honest, I don't like either of them much. I've been to Frankfurt several times on business and these days prefer to stay in Mainz and get the S-Bahn in and I absolutely loathe its airport and am just glad that I no longer have to travel through there a couple of times a month. Bonn, I've only visited twice and just found it dull and uninteresting. Bonn is where the family are so I know it well. It suffers by being next to Cologne, and it definitely isn't the most exciting place, but there are definitely some gems-many of which are not obvious (the Women's Museum sounds dire but is really good, for example, and just a bizarre collection of tat). Not worth a trip in itself but worth a day if nearby. And yes, a boring night out. But then again that's what Kölle is for.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 21, 2023 16:14:47 GMT
Out of interest, does anyone know why the BRD brought back the old Länder in the East rather than start from scratch? They are as much a creation of the Soviets and DDR are the Bezirke were. On that note, the Bezirke were centred on some really obscure places. I bet even iainbhx isn't a regular visitor to Neubrandenburg and Suhl.
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Post by iainbhx on Jan 21, 2023 16:41:29 GMT
Out of interest, does anyone know why the BRD brought back the old Länder in the East rather than start from scratch? They are as much a creation of the Soviets and DDR are the Bezirke were. On that note, the Bezirke were centred on some really obscure places. I bet even iainbhx isn't a regular visitor to Neubrandenburg and Suhl. Neubrandenburg is well worth a day trip, it's really quite nice as is much of the Mecklenburgische Seenplatte and as cheap as chips for eating and drinking out. I've not had the pleasure of Suhl and only changed trains in Gera. I think the idea was that the Bezirke should be small to avoid anyone building up a political power base. Suhl, of course, was a strange Albertine exclave within Ernestine Thüringen and for a while was part of Saze-Zeitz. Now, Zeitz, there's a place without much of a future, if the sugar beet factory goes it's hard to see what's left, it's population has dropped from 43k to 27k since Mauerfall despite two increases in the city boundaries and the median age is in the mid-50's. Nice Schloß though and a sad relic of what was once a grand railway station.
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Georg Ebner
Non-Aligned
Roman romantic reactionary Catholic
Posts: 9,251
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Post by Georg Ebner on Jan 21, 2023 20:43:52 GMT
Out of interest, does anyone know why the BRD brought back the old Länder in the East rather than start from scratch? They are as much a creation of the Soviets and DDR are the Bezirke were. On that note, the Bezirke were centred on some really obscure places. I bet even iainbhx isn't a regular visitor to Neubrandenburg and Suhl. The DDR-Länder were basically created already at the Viennese Congress (also the provinces within Prussia). The Gaue 1944: By dialect Halle-Merseburg would have fit better to Saxony - but the latter was already very populous - or Thuringia - but the latter had a too well-defined identity. Thus there remained only the merger with Magdeburg-Anhalt. Putting VorPommern to MecklenBurg was clear, of course. As posted by iainbhx, only 6 DDR-regions would have been too few for the centralists. Just think of Modrow reigning Saxony as a whole - Erich's nightMare!
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 21, 2023 21:14:35 GMT
That map makes you realise how silly Bezirk Suhl was.
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Post by minionofmidas on Jan 22, 2023 13:11:16 GMT
Out of interest, does anyone know why the BRD brought back the old Länder in the East rather than start from scratch? Constitutional formality - their right to fasttrack join the FRG is explicitly stated in the Grundgesetz. Of course we amended their borders anyways... (after local referenda, held the same day as the first free local elections). In terms of policy it was a disaster - in the longterm it created a sizable number of weak states unviable without federal help (previously we'd just had Bremen and the Saarland) which has damaged federalism. In the short run the dissolution of both the GDR and the districts and the creation of new state governments - and state police forces! -that initially existed only on paper is the main reason behind the 1990-2 breakdown of law and order in the Eastern countryside, of Lichtenhagen etc, with longlasting effects on East German football (hool) culture.
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 15,336
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Post by Sibboleth on Jan 22, 2023 14:17:59 GMT
Out of interest, does anyone know why the BRD brought back the old Länder in the East rather than start from scratch? Constitutional formality - their right to fasttrack join the FRG is explicitly stated in the Grundgesetz. Of course we amended their borders anyways... (after local referenda, held the same day as the first free local elections). In terms of policy it was a disaster - in the longterm it created a sizable number of weak states unviable without federal help (previously we'd just had Bremen and the Saarland) which has damaged federalism. In the short run the dissolution of both the GDR and the districts and the creation of new state governments - and state police forces! -that initially existed only on paper is the main reason behind the 1990-2 breakdown of law and order in the Eastern countryside, of Lichtenhagen etc, with longlasting effects on East German football (hool) culture. A surprising number of long-term problems with British local government stem from one of the least noticed consequences of the local government reforms under Heath, and that was the standardization of local government bureaucracies. Previously there had been considerable variety and exactly which departments and which officers mattered the most varied, but all of a sudden this was no longer the case: powerful departments were abolished or reduced, and the order of things was disturbed. In some local authorities (Birmingham was a notable case) nearly every senior officer retired. So you had an entirely new local government structure with a shortage of experienced senior officers and all of this during a time of considerable political and electoral instability...
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 22, 2023 18:49:30 GMT
Out of interest, does anyone know why the BRD brought back the old Länder in the East rather than start from scratch? They are as much a creation of the Soviets and DDR are the Bezirke were. On that note, the Bezirke were centred on some really obscure places. I bet even iainbhx isn't a regular visitor to Neubrandenburg and Suhl. Now, Zeitz, there's a place without much of a future, if the sugar beet factory goes it's hard to see what's left, it's population has dropped from 43k to 27k since Mauerfall despite two increases in the city boundaries and the median age is in the mid-50's. Nice Schloß though and a sad relic of what was once a grand railway station. Corporate Germany talks of how it needs to import labour (including lurking on the Polish border to recruit Ukrainians for the meat-packing plants). But has no interest in setting up shop out East if they can help it, because the pay and working conditions wouldn't appeal at all. Then of course, if Ossis head west, they're accused of abandoning their homeland for the money. Just as the original Easterners were in the Kaiserreich when they left Silesia and East Prussia for the Ruhr and Berlin.
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Post by minionofmidas on Jan 25, 2023 14:47:00 GMT
While I'm chilling with crocodiles by the pool in Tissa, it's Wahlomat time in Berlin www.wahl-o-mat.de/berlin2023/app/main_app.htmlErgebnis von ParteiKlimaliste Berlin(78,9 %) 78,9 % Ergebnis von ParteiPIRATEN(77,6 %) 77,6 % Ergebnis von ParteiDIE LINKE(77,6 %) 77,6 % Ergebnis von Parteidu.(77,6 %) 77,6 % Ergebnis von ParteiB*(77,6 %) 77,6 % Ergebnis von ParteiTierschutzpartei(77,6 %) 77,6 % Ergebnis von ParteiMIETERPARTEI(76,3 %) 76,3 % Ergebnis von ParteiDie PARTEI(76,3 %) 76,3 % Ergebnis von ParteiSGP(75 %) 75 % Ergebnis von ParteiDKP(73,7 %) 73,7 % Ergebnis von ParteiGRÜNE(73,7 %) 73,7 % Ergebnis von ParteiÖDP(65,8 %) 65,8 % Ergebnis von ParteiDie Humanisten(61,8 %) 61,8 % Ergebnis von ParteiSPD(61,8 %) 61,8 % Ergebnis von ParteiTeam Todenhöfer(60,5 %) 60,5 % Ergebnis von ParteiMENSCHLICHE WELT(60,5 %) 60,5 % Ergebnis von ParteidieBasis(59,2 %) 59,2 % Ergebnis von ParteiBÜNDNIS21(59,2 %) 59,2 % Ergebnis von ParteiGesundheitsforschung(57,9 %) 57,9 % Ergebnis von ParteiVolt(57,9 %) 57,9 % Ergebnis von ParteiNeue Demokraten(51,3 %) 51,3 % Ergebnis von ParteiGraue Panther(50 %) 50 % Ergebnis von ParteiDie Grauen(43,4 %) 43,4 % Ergebnis von ParteiBüSo(42,1 %) 42,1 % Ergebnis von ParteiFDP(39,5 %) 39,5 % Ergebnis von ParteiLKR(38,2 %) 38,2 % Ergebnis von ParteiCDU(32,9 %) 32,9 % Ergebnis von ParteiFREIE WÄHLER(27,6 %) 27,6 % Ergebnis von ParteiREP(26,3 %) 26,3 % Ergebnis von ParteiNPD(26,3 %) 26,3 % Ergebnis von ParteiAfD(21,1 %) 21,1 %
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Post by finsobruce on Jan 25, 2023 18:54:57 GMT
While I'm chilling with crocodiles by the pool in Tissa, it's Wahlomat time in Berlin I don't think anything will beat that as an introduction for a while.
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Post by minionofmidas on Jan 26, 2023 2:01:16 GMT
While I'm chilling with crocodiles by the pool in Tissa, it's Wahlomat time in Berlin I don't think anything will beat that as an introduction for a while. There really was a 9foot saltwater croc crossing the garden/pool area between the reception/breakfast building and the bungalows while we were at breakfast yesterday morning!
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 26, 2023 23:28:11 GMT
Blimey, all the oddballs in that list. Todenhöfer, BüSo, Volt, Die Grauen... Impressive that someone went to the effort to make that work.
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Post by Arthur Figgis on Jan 27, 2023 6:37:58 GMT
Given my German language 'skills'...
FDP 69,7 % Neue Demokraten 68,4 % CDU 65,8% LKR 65,8 % REP 64,5 % Die Humanisten 63,2 % Volt 61,8 % Graue Panther 61,8 % AfD 61,8 % FREIE WÄHLER 60,5 % Gesundheitsforschung 59,2 % Team Todenhöfer 59,2 % BÜNDNIS21 57,9 % Die Grauen 57,9 % NPD 51,3 % SPD 50 % GRÜNE 48,7 % dieBasis 47,4 % Tierschutzpartei 47,4 % ÖDP 46,1 % MENSCHLICHE WELT 46,1 % PIRATEN 42,1 % B* 42,1 % du. 42,1 % SGP 42,1 % DIE LINKE 42,1 % Die PARTEI 38,2 % BüSo 38,2 % MIETERPARTEI 38,2 % Klimaliste Berlin 35,5 % DKP 35,5 %
I assumed all the questions were about my dog having no nose.
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aargauer
Forum Regular
Posts: 4,765
Member is Online
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Post by aargauer on Jan 27, 2023 9:42:10 GMT
Afd 78,9 % CDU 77,8 % FREE VOTERS 75,6 % FDP 72,2 % REP 72,2 % New Democrats 71,1 % LKR 64,4 % Grey Panthers 58,9 % NPD 58,9 % Health Research 57,8 % The Greys 55,6 % Volt 54,4 % Team Todenhöfer 52,2 % ALLIANCE21 51,1 % dieBasis 50 % The Humanists 45,6 % SPD 45,6 % HUMAN WORLD 42,2 % ÖDP 42,2 % BüSo 40 % GREEN 34,4 % Animal Welfare Party 32,2 % Du 31,1 % B* 30 % PIRATES 28,9 % SGP 28,9 % THE LEFT 28,9 % The PARTY 27,8 % DKP 23,3 % TENANTS' PARTY 18,9 % Climate List Berlin 15,6 %
Id probably vote Freie Wahler
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jan 27, 2023 9:44:55 GMT
REP 83,7 %
AfD 80,2 %
CDU 79,1 %
FREIE WÄHLER 79,1 %
NPD 70,9 %
FDP 70,9 %
Die Grauen 69,8 %
Graue Panther 68,6 %
Neue Demokraten 65,1 %
Gesundheitsforschung 62,8 %
LKR 61,6 %
dieBasis 58,1 %
BÜNDNIS21 58,1 %
BüSo 52,3 %
Die Humanisten 48,8 %
SPD 44,2 %
ÖDP 43 %
MENSCHLICHE WELT 39,5 %
Team Todenhöfer 39,5 %
Volt 36 %
PIRATEN 26,7 %
DKP 26,7 %
du. 25,6 %
SGP 25,6 %
MIETERPARTEI 25,6 %
Tierschutzpartei 25,6 %
DIE LINKE 24,4 %
GRÜNE 24,4 %
Die PARTEI 22,1 %
B* 20,9 %
Klimaliste Berlin 19,8 %
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Post by minionofmidas on Jan 27, 2023 12:49:40 GMT
Id probably vote Freie Wahler In West Berlin they're basically the former REPs. (Kind of amusing that the original product is still around there, they've long disappeared from almost amywhere else.)
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jamie
Top Poster
Posts: 6,874
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Post by jamie on Jan 27, 2023 13:02:33 GMT
In West Berlin they're basically the former REPs. (Kind of amusing that the original product is still around there, they've long disappeared from almost amywhere else.) Could you explain a bit more about the Free Voters organisation/ideology at the federal level? Even as someone interested in German politics they’ve almost seemed a bit hard to decipher to me.
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