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Post by iainbhx on Sept 9, 2012 14:02:42 GMT
12% for Golden Shower is beyond horrific, especially when you realise that there's a good chance that the number will keep on rising. As for PASOK, what you need to remember is that the party was essentially a personalist and (increasingly) patronage machine without much in the way of deep roots; the socialist label was very much a flag of convenience. Under the circumstances... PASOK's poll rating is probably flattering to their actual political strength. As you suggest, it really is a personal and patronage vote now. I don't like any of the end games on this one. |
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Post by nord on Sept 9, 2012 14:46:21 GMT
12% for Golden Shower is beyond horrific, especially when you realise that there's a good chance that the number will keep on rising. Because they are a party of direct action, on the streets. This was uploaded two days ago, already 214,000 views: |
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Post by iainbhx on Sept 9, 2012 14:58:34 GMT
12% for Golden Shower is beyond horrific, especially when you realise that there's a good chance that the number will keep on rising. Because they are a party of direct action, on the streets. This was uploaded two days ago, already 214,000 views: "Direct Action", "on the streets" You mean thuggish actions and violence against the rule of law. Why not get the police involved. Oh, hang on, they probably are the off duty police. I suppose that next some pimp or petty criminal who is a member of Golden Shower will get killed in a brawl preferably with commies or immigrants and they'll have their suitable hero. |
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Sibboleth
Labour
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Post by Sibboleth on Sept 9, 2012 17:21:07 GMT
12% for Golden Shower is beyond horrific Truly scary - Shocking, but not surprising in the circumstances. Yes; never forget that these people are literally neo-nazis. With swastikas and an imitation SA and everything. |
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cibwr
Plaid Cymru
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Post by cibwr on Sept 9, 2012 17:27:35 GMT
You mean thuggish actions and violence against the rule of law. Why not get the police involved. Oh, hang on, they probably are the off duty police. I suppose that next some pimp or petty criminal who is a member of Golden Shower will get killed in a brawl preferably with commies or immigrants and they'll have their suitable hero. Exalt! |
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Post by iainbhx on Sept 9, 2012 18:02:26 GMT
Truly scary - Shocking, but not surprising in the circumstances. Yes; never forget that these people are literally neo-nazis. With swastikas and an imitation SA and everything. There's nothing neo about these guys. Just plain straight down the line Nazis, even using the playbook as written in Landsberg am Lech all those years ago. |
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Post by nord on Sept 9, 2012 21:35:37 GMT
Yes; never forget that these people are literally neo-nazis. With swastikas and an imitation SA and everything. There's nothing neo about these guys. Just plain straight down the line Nazis, even using the playbook as written in Landsberg am Lech all those years ago. Only in politically correct Britain, a few Scandinavian countries and America are ''Nazi'', ''racist'', ''fascist'' etc used as a smear to stop freedom of speech or a party winning votes. In Greece these silly labels have no impact whatosever. That's why the anti-fascists/loony left over there are frustrated. ;D |
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Post by iainbhx on Sept 9, 2012 21:50:59 GMT
There's nothing neo about these guys. Just plain straight down the line Nazis, even using the playbook as written in Landsberg am Lech all those years ago. Only in politically correct Britain, a few Scandinavian countries and America are ''Nazi'', ''racist'', ''fascist'' etc used as a smear to stop freedom of speech or a party winning votes. In Greece these silly labels have no impact whatosever. That's why the anti-fascists/loony left over there are frustrated. ;D Oh grow up, you aren't fooling anyone on here. Those phrases can be bandied around too much, usually by Dave Spart and his mates and silly students. Often by the sort of idiots who think you can get rid of something by banning it rather than debating it and defeating it. Let's face it Χρυσή Αυγή are not respectable nationalists, they aren't even non-respectable Völkisch nationalists, they aren't even some neo-Metaxists, they are National Socialists, they even admit it themselves. We are the faithful soldiers of the National Socialist idea and nothing else is a quote from a Michaloliakos article. They give the Hitlergruß salute, they wear swastika rings, one of their MP's belongs to a band called Pogrom which has a charming little ditty called Auschwitz - you can guess the content. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Sept 9, 2012 21:52:46 GMT
It isn't a smear if its an accurate description though is it? I agree its silly when applied to the likes of the BNP or the French FN, not least because it devalues the term. But an outfit like this is avoweldy Nazi. If I described the Labour party as Communist (as I might have done 30 years ago) it might be intended and taken as a smear. I don;t think you could say the same if I described the Communist party as Communist
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Sept 9, 2012 22:50:50 GMT
It isn't a smear if its an accurate description though is it? I agree its silly when applied to the likes of the BNP or the French FN, not least because it devalues the term. But an outfit like this is avoweldy Nazi. If I described the Labour party as Communist (as I might have done 30 years ago) it might be intended and taken as a smear. I don;t think you could say the same if I described the Communist party as Communist Well, in point of fact only the KKE amongst the major communist parties is still mad enough to be simply Communist, rather than Euro-Communist, or eco-Communist, or post-Communist or turns-out-the-electorate-won't-just-vote-for-reheated-Stalinism-Communist, but the general point holds true. |
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
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Post by john07 on Sept 9, 2012 23:34:20 GMT
It isn't a smear if its an accurate description though is it? I agree its silly when applied to the likes of the BNP or the French FN, not least because it devalues the term. But an outfit like this is avoweldy Nazi. If I described the Labour party as Communist (as I might have done 30 years ago) it might be intended and taken as a smear. I don;t think you could say the same if I described the Communist party as Communist For once I agree with Pete. Many on the left were too free with the terms Fascist and Nazi. Franco was described as a fascist when in reality he he was an old fashioned right wing authoritarian.. He certainly had support from fascists, inside and outside of Spain, but his regime does not really fit the description. The Falange was a proto-fascist organization butwastaken over by Franco and neutered. The same description was used for Salazar in Portugal and the 'Colonels' in Greece. The French FN seems to me to be a retread of Poujardism (right wing populist) rather than a fascist party. I was never sure with the NF. They claimed otherwise but the fact that a breakaway National Party including John Kingsley Read left the NF to form a party supposedly free from Nazi associations, suggests that they could be described as fascist. |
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thetop
Labour
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Post by thetop on Sept 10, 2012 0:08:37 GMT
Only in politically correct Britain, a few Scandinavian countries and America are ''Nazi'', ''racist'', ''fascist'' etc used as a smear to stop freedom of speech or a party winning votes. In Greece these silly labels have no impact whatosever. That's why the anti-fascists/loony left over there are frustrated. ;D Are the Left (love it when nazis try and call others loonies) really that frustrated though, when they're topping the poll? |
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Post by nord on Sept 10, 2012 1:15:45 GMT
Only in politically correct Britain, a few Scandinavian countries and America are ''Nazi'', ''racist'', ''fascist'' etc used as a smear to stop freedom of speech or a party winning votes. In Greece these silly labels have no impact whatosever. That's why the anti-fascists/loony left over there are frustrated. ;D Oh grow up, you aren't fooling anyone on here. Those phrases can be bandied around too much, usually by Dave Spart and his mates and silly students. Often by the sort of idiots who think you can get rid of something by banning it rather than debating it and defeating it. Let's face it Χρυσή Αυγή are not respectable nationalists, they aren't even non-respectable Völkisch nationalists, they aren't even some neo-Metaxists, they are National Socialists, they even admit it themselves. We are the faithful soldiers of the National Socialist idea and nothing else is a quote from a Michaloliakos article. They give the Hitlergruß salute, they wear swastika rings, one of their MP's belongs to a band called Pogrom which has a charming little ditty called Auschwitz - you can guess the content. Not all modern National Socialists are Neo-Nazis, in fact very few are. en.metapedia.org/wiki/National_Socialism_origins |
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Post by nord on Sept 10, 2012 1:35:35 GMT
When I first heard of the Golden Dawn, I also was led to believe they were Neo-Nazis, and mostly thugs as well, however after studying them online for a while its clear they aren't, but are non-Neo-Nazi National Socialists, their ideology is 100% Greek ultra-nationalist.
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Post by iainbhx on Sept 10, 2012 7:21:16 GMT
I don't think a link to metapedia counts as a valid source for this. For those who don't know Metapedia is a multilingual white nationalist and white supremacist, extreme right-wing online encyclopedia |
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thetop
Labour
[k4r]
Posts: 945
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Post by thetop on Sept 10, 2012 9:41:14 GMT
What we perhaps are left with is the unhappy realization that in all of Europe, there is one unreconstructed Communist party and one genuine Nazi party, and they are both in Greece and both out polling their neo, krypro and ersatz imitators elsewhere in Europe. If that were the case, it'd be KKE and not SYRIZA leftists were rallying around. SYRIZA, whilst firmly on the Left, are anything but unreconstructed. |
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Sibboleth
Labour
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Post by Sibboleth on Sept 10, 2012 11:17:07 GMT
Not really; it's just that they have a loyal (and frankly rather cultish) following. And, anyway, they aren't dangerous for obvious reasons.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
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Post by The Bishop on Sept 10, 2012 11:19:08 GMT
Indeed, there are comparisons there to be made with the Japan CP......
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Sibboleth
Labour
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Post by Sibboleth on Sept 10, 2012 11:27:51 GMT
The KKE are funnier. 'KKE - Powerful. For Strong People!'
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Post by nord on Sept 10, 2012 16:09:56 GMT
I don't think a link to metapedia counts as a valid source for this. For those who don't know Metapedia is a multilingual white nationalist and white supremacist, extreme right-wing online encyclopediaNo it isn't at all. That's just what biased wikipedia says. Metapedia was set up to post the objective facts, without political correctness or biased viewpoints hence it is not afraid to discuss the differences of races and IQ levels etc as Wikipedia is. |
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