The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Jan 19, 2018 11:18:12 GMT
Italian unification was a huge error That is quite a bold claim..... |
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Jan 19, 2018 11:38:56 GMT
Italian unification was a huge error That is quite a bold claim..... The abolition of Austria-Hungary was a huge error. |
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Jan 19, 2018 12:12:12 GMT
That is quite a bold claim..... The abolition of Austria-Hungary was a huge error. Save that it wasn't really "abolished", rather it disintegrated in a manner not unlike the USSR? (now there's one for the "should never have ended" pile.......) |
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Jan 19, 2018 19:53:08 GMT
There's an attempt to explain the new electoral system in English (except that it seems to assume all electors are female) here and an idea of what the ballot paper is supposed to look like here. There have already been attempts to get the latest Canipranzium declared unconstitutional in the courts, although with Parliament having been dissolved and nearly 5 years since the last election, it's probably too late to prevent its application this time. It does seem too close to the electoral law that was used from 1994 to 2001 before being quashed by the judiciary. The lack of a majority bonus is the biggest difference from the allocation method used at the past 3 general elections, and it's nothing like the two-round system that Renzi proposed either. The bottom line is that it's more difficult to see a stable government resulting from all this that will last the full legislative term. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 19, 2018 20:46:40 GMT
Italian unification was a huge error That is quite a bold claim..... A claim I will happily defend if asked! |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 19, 2018 20:48:58 GMT
The abolition of Austria-Hungary was a huge error. Save that it wasn't really "abolished", rather it disintegrated in a manner not unlike the USSR? (now there's one for the "should never have ended" pile.......) Worked for those it worked for. Didn't work for those it subjugated to its will. An odd one. |
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Jan 19, 2018 21:13:38 GMT
I can see the tactical point. And the protocol has appeal for me as a Russophile and 'Big Russia' supporter who dislikes the Stans. I don’t like the collection of despotic born to fail states that are the Central Asian “Stans” either tbh. I just dislike Putin and his kleptocracy more By the way: Only 2 - as far as i know - prominent journalists in Germany predicted the rerise of Islam: Peter Scholl-Latour and Gerhard Konzelmann, who wrote a book in the early 1980ies on the SU's "demographical bomb", turning the SU secretly into an innerasian Sovietistan. Nobody took him serious at that time, of course. Already Russia's remaining ~40 million Muslims are a huge problem and increasingly confident. (Recently a huge mosque was built in Kasan, doubtlessly in order to overshadow the kremlin and cathedral erected once by Ivan IV the Terrible.) |
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Jan 19, 2018 21:15:32 GMT
That is quite a bold claim..... A claim I will happily defend if asked! It is certainly arguable that something along the lines of Napoleon's carve up* - with a Kingdom of The Two Sicilies (Republic if you prefer) and the rest in Italy would function better. I wonder how it would have panned out if there had been a "Bismarck solution" with the various Italian states surviving as sub-kingdoms within the unified state, leading to a "Federal Republic of Italy" with a constitutional structure mirroring that of Germany today and "lander" looking bit like the Renaissance states of Piedmont/Savoy, Milan, Venice, Tuscany, Papal States, Genoa, and Naples with Sicily and Sardinia as separate "lander." *without the annexations to the French Empire, obviously |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2018 21:19:37 GMT
I don’t like the collection of despotic born to fail states that are the Central Asian “Stans” either tbh. I just dislike Putin and his kleptocracy more By the way: Only 2 - as far as i know - prominent journalists in Germany predicted the rerise of Islam: Peter Scholl-Latour and Rainer Konzelmann, who wrote a book in the early 1980ies on the SU's "demographical bomb", turning the SU secretly into an innerasian Sovietistan. Nobody took him serious at that time, of course. Already Russia's remaining ~40 million Muslims are a huge problem and increasingly confident. (Recently a huge mosque was built in Kasan, doubtlessly in order to overshadow the kremlin and cathedral erected once by Ivan IV the Terrible.) Indeed. I’ve read about the rise of Islam, and Islamism, in Russia. It will be interesting to see how the increasingly assertive Russian Orthodox Church and its increasing political role interacts with the increasing numbers and assertiveness of Russian Muslims. |
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Jan 19, 2018 21:39:00 GMT
Italian unification was a huge error. NIETZSCHE wrote once, that v.BISMARCK and his unification had killed Germany. That was not entirely precise: The ability to adopt the westeuropean concept of a united national-state did not cause the death of Germany, Italy, Russia - but proved it. Germany's vision had always been a Reich: lost somewhere between everywhere and nowhere, not entirely from this world:, while Italy had been an atomistic collection of cities. The pantheism of GOETHE was german, the nationalistic voles were decadent defectors imitating the french revolutionaries! Of all famous Italians only MACHIAVELLI had considered once italian unity, without real interest. It was no coincidence, that the house of Savoy was french. |
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Jan 20, 2018 0:22:18 GMT
Shocked to see the Democratic Party so low in the poll, I think they’re doing a good job. At least their vote is holding up among distinguished forum members. Renzi gambled and lost and since then has been miscalculating rather a lot. There was a major party split recently; the splinter group is part of Liberi e Uguali. Renzi's biggest "mistake" was, that he hadn't done some leftextreme YouthSins as others. Deriving from PPI, he was disliked by PD's LeftWing from the very beginning. |
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Jan 20, 2018 15:00:16 GMT
 Blank map of the new constituencies. |
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Post by Antiochian on Jan 20, 2018 17:28:59 GMT
Shocked to see the Democratic Party so low in the poll, I think they’re doing a good job. At least their vote is holding up among distinguished forum members. Maybe it's because the Italian public are up close and personal with 20 years of Euro-induced economic malaise and forum members are not... |
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thetop
Labour
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Post by thetop on Jan 20, 2018 17:38:40 GMT
Shocked to see the Democratic Party so low in the poll, I think they’re doing a good job. At least their vote is holding up among distinguished forum members. Maybe it's because the Italian public are up close and personal with 20 years of Euro-induced economic malaise and forum members are not... So why aren't they voting for parties that will drop the Euro? |
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Post by Antiochian on Jan 20, 2018 17:55:08 GMT
Maybe it's because the Italian public are up close and personal with 20 years of Euro-induced economic malaise and forum members are not... So why aren't they voting for parties that will drop the Euro? Maybe they are and they just don't know it... After all some UK voters chose Labour thinking that Corbyn was a Leaver  |
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Jan 20, 2018 22:30:01 GMT
Italian unification was a huge error. By the way: A friend heard in a northitalian hospital, that they don't take blood from SouthItaly (and vice versa)! According to old surveys (conducted by CavalliSforza), the Italians are genetically quite coherent, though. (The greek coasts in the south, Sardinia and Liguria are very distinct.) |
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Jan 20, 2018 22:32:21 GMT
So why aren't they voting for parties that will drop the Euro? Maybe they are and they just don't know it... After all some UK voters chose Labour thinking that Corbyn was a Leaver If we add M5S, LN, FdI, some FarLefties aso. |
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maxque
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Post by maxque on Jan 20, 2018 23:31:35 GMT
I would definitely vote Lega Nord and am optimistic that the party will make major gains. Italy is at crisis point and needs to leave the European Union immediately and adopt a much stricter immigration policy with Europe and northern Africa (border checkpoints along the northern border, particularly the north-east) and readopt the Lira. If Padania were to become independent then border checks with southern Italy would be essential. If independence were limited to a couple places like Veneto and Lombardy then border checks would become all the more vital as Padania has borne the absolute brunt of the immigration surge. I am generally sympathetic to any nationalist movements which will weaken the European Union: Italy is an unnatural country where the north has been oversubsiding the south by a significant margin for a sustained period of time despite clear linguistic, cultural, historical and political differences (particularly with the north being more angled towards Germany and France, and the south being significantly poorer). Yes, this is grievance politics in action but the net effect is in an effort to dismantle the EU and give Britain even more of an edge over Italy.Why should they go bankrupt by going back to a worthless money? Also, you're right on that last point, it will much help from other countries for UK economy to go through the fatal error that is leaving EU. |
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thetop
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Post by thetop on Jan 21, 2018 1:11:57 GMT
Maybe they are and they just don't know it... After all some UK voters chose Labour thinking that Corbyn was a Leaver If we add M5S, LN, FdI, some FarLefties aso. . LN + FdI + PaP = under 1/5 of the vote. |
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Jan 21, 2018 12:15:16 GMT
Ah, thanks! But diMaio's position is very new for M5S, isn't it? (Of course, Grillo was never trustworthy on this topic, especially taking into account his electorate.) Should be good news for LN. |
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