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Post by Merseymike on Mar 5, 2018 9:10:02 GMT
Its really hard to imagine a ragbag of different parties with preening leaders and the 5*M being able to sort out any of the problems of the way Italy is run. Particularly given that there seems to be a regional pattern in the vote distribution.
The old joke about countries matched up with heaven or hell said that in hell youd have the Italian government...they have a point.
The thing is that Italy was the first country to go populist. Berlusconi. That didnt deliver and neither did the centre left who just didn't do what they said. What comes next after the next failure?
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andrea
Non-Aligned
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Post by andrea on Mar 5, 2018 9:19:56 GMT
PD hold up decently in the city of Milan given how bad they performed elsewhere. They are carrying 3 out of 6 FPTP constituencies at the House (Tobacci, Quartapelle and Mor) and 1 out of 3 Senate races (Tommaso Cerno elected).
PD hold 2 out of 5 FPTP seats in Turin at the House and 1 out of 2 at the Senate.
Minniti has lost his FPTP race in Pesaro. Franceschini has lost in Ferrara.
Padoan has won in Siena by 4%.
Casini elected in Bologna.
Bonino and Madia are leading in their Roman races.
At the Senate PD has lost Modena, Ferrara, Rimini.
They have survived in Ravenna. Reggio and Modena are too close to call.
At the House, they won Scandiano by a small margin. They seem to be ahead in Reggio. Lorenzin looks safe in Modena. They have won the 4 Bologna seats. They should hold Ravenna, Imola and Forlì. They lost everything else in Emilia Romagna.
In Tuscany, PD held Florence and Sesto Fiorentino. Nencini held Arezzo-Siena constituency by the skin of his teeth. They lost Prato and they are behind in Livorno (gap looks too big to be overturned with few polling stations left to report) and Pisa (still close).
Same story at the House. They win Florence, Sesto Fiorentino and Empoli. Padoan in Siena. Maybe Livorno. Lost everything else
PD lost every FPTP seat in Marche and Umbria
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Mar 5, 2018 9:32:32 GMT
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Mar 5, 2018 11:45:52 GMT
The thing is that Italy was the first country to go populist. Berlusconi Savonarola. That didnt deliver and neither did the centre left who just didn't do what they said. What comes next after the next failure? Fixed that for you. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Mar 5, 2018 11:48:41 GMT
A Senate seat in Trentino-South Tyrol appears to have gone to the centre-left bloc (presumably to the SVP). I'm still chortling at the thought of the SVP in the centre-left bloc. And as Foggy points out, the Valdostan regionalists have managed to lose their seat in favour of those arch-regionalists....er...MS5. What do we want? Centralisation of power in Rome! When do we want it? Your choice! |
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Post by mrpastelito on Mar 5, 2018 11:52:20 GMT
A Senate seat in Trentino-South Tyrol appears to have gone to the centre-left bloc (presumably to the SVP). I'm still chortling at the thought of the SVP in the centre-left bloc. True, but can you see them team up with Fratelli d'Italia, Salvini and Berlusconi? |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Mar 5, 2018 11:53:23 GMT
La Repubblica says Massimo d'Alema is out. I am deeply amused.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Mar 5, 2018 11:55:15 GMT
The More Europe grouping showing a stunning degree of support for Jean-Claude's vision south of the Alps. Apparently Bonino will be the only one in at this rate. |
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Post by Merseymike on Mar 5, 2018 12:11:25 GMT
The thing is that Italy was the first country to go populist. Berlusconi Savonarola. That didnt deliver and neither did the centre left who just didn't do what they said. What comes next after the next failure? Fixed that for you. Take the point - but to me Berlusconi was a model for the current trends albeit not always acknowledged |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2018 12:38:13 GMT
The thing is that Italy was the first country to go populist. Berlusconi Savonarola. That didnt deliver and neither did the centre left who just didn't do what they said. What comes next after the next failure? Fixed that for you. Why not Ceasar? He was a kind of populist.😉 |
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mboy
Liberal
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Post by mboy on Mar 5, 2018 13:32:30 GMT
Wow.
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
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Post by Sibboleth on Mar 5, 2018 14:28:58 GMT
LeU never got off the ground, of course. Why would it? Exactly the wrong people to splinter. But it has had an impact on the election - it has cost the PD quite a few district seats. Its astonishing how much of this disaster is a direct result of Renzi's brutish incompetence: you don't just have that needless split, but the badly designed electoral system itself which has doubled down on the damage.
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 16,038
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Post by Sibboleth on Mar 5, 2018 14:31:32 GMT
PD third in Umbria, no district seats won. Renzi has resigned as PD leader o/c but it would probably also be for the best if he never showed his face in public again.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2018 15:06:40 GMT
That would be an interesting government if it happened. The typical corrupt often allegedly Mafia tied Italian politicians have failed the Italian people consistently since 1945. It’s time for others outside the mainstream to have go. It would be interesting to see the EU’s reaction, would they offer reform? Could we have an ally in Brexit negotiations? I just hope for Italy’s sake that that makeup of government doesn’t collapse into infighting as I suspect it might with Salvini.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2018 15:06:42 GMT
According to the BBC the Five Star Movement is now seeking out a coalition partner and according to James Reynolds is rumoured to be looking at forming a coalition with Lega Nord. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43272700they have the numbers |
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 16,038
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Post by Sibboleth on Mar 5, 2018 15:09:21 GMT
That would be an interesting government if it happened. The typical corrupt often Mafia tied Italian politicians have failed the Italian people consistently since 1945. You might want to consider rephrasing that slightly. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Mar 5, 2018 15:32:42 GMT
Take the point - but to me Berlusconi was a model for the current trends albeit not always acknowledged I was having a bit of joke admittedly there. Berlo is definitely a model for some of our modern trends, but arguably he was in the right place at the right time. I'd be interested to know what Sibboleth thinks, but I'd argue that had Craxi et al not fallen, Berlo would not have emerged in this way- and to some extent he is Craxism taken to its extreme conclusion, a world where ideology does not really matter. Even Andreotti had some principles of politics- Berlusconi and his chum Craxi arguably had none beyond power. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Mar 5, 2018 15:38:13 GMT
PD third in Umbria, no district seats won. Renzi has resigned as PD leader o/c but it would probably also be for the best if he never showed his face in public again. I suspect the PD need a period of silence, then give the gig to Gentiloni, whose popularity outruns the party itself. Maurizio Martina is probably too close to Renzi, which is a shame as he looks competent. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2018 15:39:23 GMT
That would be an interesting government if it happened. The typical corrupt often Mafia tied Italian politicians have failed the Italian people consistently since 1945. You might want to consider rephrasing that slightly. You’re right. Failed the Italian people since 1871. In all seriousness according to Transparency international, Political parties, public officials and Parliament are the most corrupt institutions in Italy. In that order. If it’s about the Mafia, I’ll change it to allegedly. I’ll just leave this here www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/20/berlusconi-accusations-ties-cosa-nostra-revived-alessandro-di-battista-italy-electionThere have been a few cases of corruption in Five Star, but I believe they’ll try to clamp down. Perhaps I’m naive. Time will tell. |
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Sibboleth
Labour
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Post by Sibboleth on Mar 5, 2018 15:51:52 GMT
Berlo is definitely a model for some of our modern trends, but arguably he was in the right place at the right time. I'd be interested to know what Sibboleth thinks, but I'd argue that had Craxi et al not fallen, Berlo would not have emerged in this way- and to some extent he is Craxism taken to its extreme conclusion, a world where ideology does not really matter. Even Andreotti had some principles of politics- Berlusconi and his chum Craxi arguably had none beyond power. Craxi was Berlusconi's political protector in the 1980s and early 90s, of course. He had ties with all parts of the Pentapartito system, but Craxi was the key figure for him. Berlusconi had no reason to bother with electoral politics so long as he was around, because Craxi had his back. As soon as Craxi fell from grace, though, the threat of prison loomed. It is apparently true that shortly before he did a runner to Tunisia to avoid multiple corruption charges, Craxi paid a visit to Berlusconi and gave him instructions on how he could exploit the chaos and become his own political protector. Remember here that Berlusconi's sudden emergence as a political player came as a massive shock to everyone else... |
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