Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
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Post by Khunanup on Jan 17, 2018 22:31:43 GMT
Can't help thinking that CL is ignoring my posts for some reason...  |
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CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
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Post by CatholicLeft on Jan 17, 2018 22:35:59 GMT
Can't help thinking that CL is ignoring my posts for some reason... Am I? Sorry Khunanup. |
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
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Post by Khunanup on Jan 17, 2018 22:42:26 GMT
Can't help thinking that CL is ignoring my posts for some reason... Am I? Sorry Khunanup. Thought it might be that our perspectives are rather different on NI (though obviously not diametrically opposite) plus of course my colleague I referred to is ex-Labour. On the issue of Sinn Fein we're essentially saying the same thing. Though you've been concentrating on putting a certain individual straight... |
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Jan 17, 2018 22:44:22 GMT
Some of you need to recognise that a peace process means nothing if you aren't prepared to move on. I would vote Labour here, Sinn Fein if in NI and never Tory, LibDem or DUP anywhere. Sorry, Sinn Fein continue to be a gang-related bunch of hypocrites. The sub-level violence comtinues daily and they do not condemn it,whilst many SF figures still avoid condemning past atrocities. Michelle O'Neill is a smiling face front. The naivity of so many surprises me. The cross-over between para-militaries and organised crime is obvious (and not limited to NI, e.g. Bosnia) - if you're fighting that sort if war you attract those sort of people. SF's continued links to them rule them out for me. Republicanism/Loyalism is incidental to being a hard man in a gang for some people. And like you I'm aware of the DUP's slightly more discreet links to the same sort of people. If they were the only parties on offer to me I would found a party. Or emigrate. |
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Sharon
Labour & Co-operative
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Post by Sharon on Jan 17, 2018 23:06:31 GMT
Some of you need to recognise that a peace process means nothing if you aren't prepared to move on. I would vote Labour here, Sinn Fein if in NI and never Tory, LibDem or DUP anywhere. Whereas if I lived in N. Ireland, I'd vote SDLP. |
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Post by Merseymike on Jan 17, 2018 23:09:58 GMT
Some of you need to recognise that a peace process means nothing if you aren't prepared to move on. I would vote Labour here, Sinn Fein if in NI and never Tory, LibDem or DUP anywhere. Whereas if I lived in N. Ireland, I'd vote SDLP. I would have done at one time, but I think they have moved a long way from what they once were, and have become more like the Northern equivalent to Fine Gael |
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Post by Merseymike on Jan 17, 2018 23:11:23 GMT
They sound like reactionaries. Not always left or right Didnt SF gain an SDLP seat Interestingly, the SDLP was a socialist foundation, with lots of middle-class urban support. Sinn Fein were the catch-all Republicans with rural conservative support. Sure. But that isn't the case now. Of the parties available, Sinn Fein have the best policies, so they would get my vote. I find it odd that some seem to think that the peace process should mean the disappearance of the former combattants, rather than their integration into the political process, as an aim. |
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CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
Posts: 6,716
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Post by CatholicLeft on Jan 17, 2018 23:17:01 GMT
Interestingly, the SDLP was a socialist foundation, with lots of middle-class urban support. Sinn Fein were the catch-all Republicans with rural conservative support. Sure. But that isn't the case now. Of the parties available, Sinn Fein have the best policies, so they would get my vote. I find it odd that some seem to think that the peace process should mean the disappearance of the former combattants, rather than their integration into the political process, as an aim. I don't - I am a great believer in integration. My problem is that Sinn Fein are pretending. |
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
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Post by Khunanup on Jan 17, 2018 23:19:39 GMT
Interestingly, the SDLP was a socialist foundation, with lots of middle-class urban support. Sinn Fein were the catch-all Republicans with rural conservative support. Sure. But that isn't the case now. Of the parties available, Sinn Fein have the best policies, so they would get my vote. I find it odd that some seem to think that the peace process should mean the disappearance of the former combattants, rather than their integration into the political process, as an aim. This is all a bit above your pay-grade isn't it Mike. Never mind, keep avoiding looking beyond the superficial... |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2018 23:21:43 GMT
Sure. But that isn't the case now. Of the parties available, Sinn Fein have the best policies, so they would get my vote. I find it odd that some seem to think that the peace process should mean the disappearance of the former combattants, rather than their integration into the political process, as an aim. I don't - I am a great believer in integration. My problem is that Sinn Fein are pretending. They aren't pretending give them some credit please |
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Post by Merseymike on Jan 17, 2018 23:22:56 GMT
Sure. But that isn't the case now. Of the parties available, Sinn Fein have the best policies, so they would get my vote. I find it odd that some seem to think that the peace process should mean the disappearance of the former combattants, rather than their integration into the political process, as an aim. This is all a bit above your pay-grade isn't it Mike. Never mind, keep avoiding looking beyond the superficial... You clearly haven't noticed that I'm not very interested in what you think or say. |
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Post by Merseymike on Jan 17, 2018 23:23:34 GMT
Sure. But that isn't the case now. Of the parties available, Sinn Fein have the best policies, so they would get my vote. I find it odd that some seem to think that the peace process should mean the disappearance of the former combattants, rather than their integration into the political process, as an aim. I don't - I am a great believer in integration. My problem is that Sinn Fein are pretending. That's your view. We disagree. |
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CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
Posts: 6,716
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Post by CatholicLeft on Jan 17, 2018 23:26:02 GMT
I don't - I am a great believer in integration. My problem is that Sinn Fein are pretending. They aren't pretending give them some credit please I have respect for, and offer credit to, some SF politicians. The problem is that I know too much about what is still going on. |
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CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
Posts: 6,716
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Post by CatholicLeft on Jan 17, 2018 23:27:57 GMT
I don't - I am a great believer in integration. My problem is that Sinn Fein are pretending. That's your view. We disagree. Sadly, Mike, I know too much about what is still going on. |
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Post by Merseymike on Jan 17, 2018 23:28:02 GMT
They aren't pretending give them some credit please I have respect for, and offer credit to, some SF politicians. The problem is that I know too much about what is still going on. Its a process. I think that the greatest change will occur when Gerry Adams disappears from this mortal coil. In the meantime, SF exist and the SDLP may as well not, frankly. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2018 23:32:39 GMT
They aren't pretending give them some credit please I have respect for, and offer credit to, some SF politicians. The problem is that I know too much about what is still going on. As I am sure you are of the DUP et al as well? In which case concentrate I would tell all the political elite on getting devolution restored because without that you will drift back to the past. Adams is giving up the SF leadership, an MP has been shamed into resigning, things are changing. Arleen knows what she needs to do, and if she doesn't she needs to go as well. |
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Post by finsobruce on Jan 17, 2018 23:45:42 GMT
Whereas if I lived in N. Ireland, I'd vote SDLP. I would have done at one time, but I think they have moved a long way from what they once were, and have become more like the Northern equivalent to Fine Gael No, to a certain extent they always were the Northern equivalent of Fine Gael, and a bit of Fianna Fail in places and so on and so forth. But they are still also a Social Democratic and Labour party. As you rightly say Sinn Fein will now have a significant shift when the Adams era finishes and we are into post troubles personnel if not post troubles politics. |
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
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Post by Khunanup on Jan 18, 2018 2:19:06 GMT
This is all a bit above your pay-grade isn't it Mike. Never mind, keep avoiding looking beyond the superficial... You clearly haven't noticed that I'm not very interested in what you think or say. Good for you. Carry on... |
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
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Post by Khunanup on Jan 18, 2018 2:42:11 GMT
I would have done at one time, but I think they have moved a long way from what they once were, and have become more like the Northern equivalent to Fine Gael No, to a certain extent they always were the Northern equivalent of Fine Gael, and a bit of Fianna Fail in places and so on and so forth. But they are still also a Social Democratic and Labour party. As you rightly say Sinn Fein will now have a significant shift when the Adams era finishes and we are into post troubles personnel if not post troubles politics. As long as Sinn Fein are pretend abstentionists they cannot move forwards whether Adams is round or not. They either have to embrace officially what they have embraced de facto within Northern Ireland itself and taking money for offices from the Crown( constitutionalism) or the whole ludicrous political cycle will keep repeating itself (and Sinn Fein being strong feeds the DUP and vice versa but I do think that Sinn Fein has more of a basic causal effect for somewhat obvious reasons). They also have to acknowledge their past. I can't see that happening any time soon so we're up for the same corrosive politics for years if not decades to come with periodic suspension of devolution because no government can be formed and spineless government ministers in Westminster who won't do what is necessary to bring things to a head because it's been drummed into them that they can't piss off either the Sinners or the DUP (and certainly not both at the same time). Of course what really needs to happen is the freedom of parties in the NI assembly to create coalition governments as they wish because in and of itself, if you ever what anything approaching non-sectarian politics in Northern Ireland, you have to get rid of the current system that effectively institutionalises sectarian politics. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2018 9:33:18 GMT
Wasnt Fine Gael and Fianna Fail bourne of SF
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