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Post by boondock on Jan 17, 2018 9:54:57 GMT
I find extremely troubling most posters on the right are very eager to denounce the violence from IRA past, but turn a blind eye at the violence from DUP/loyalist past. I do denounce Loyalist violence, which claimed a fraction of the lives of Republican violence even although it is of no electoral significance, then or now. And I also denounce Democratic Unionist rhetoric even although it is and was a long way short of violence. Paisleys rhetoric over the years WAS directly responsible for so much violence to say not is naive in the extreme. Not to mention Ulster resistance, sharing platforms with all shades of loyalist terrorists and even to this day the cosy relationship continues. |
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johnloony
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Post by johnloony on Jan 17, 2018 11:17:04 GMT
Yup sums it up. In my younger days I lived in Londonderry for a short while I left a couple of phone messages for the local rugby club's to find out when training was I received phonecalls back that asked me what the bame of the school I went to was not what position I played or to what leval I had played to in the past. "bame"? |
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Chris from Brum
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Post by Chris from Brum on Jan 17, 2018 11:24:36 GMT
Typo for "name" probably. It's a not particularly subtle way of asking which foot you kick with in NI (and in the West of Scotland to some extent), with schooling being largely segregated. It's disappointing to hear of a rugby club asking the question, as a sport across Ireland it has a reputation for being far more integrated than the GAA sports or soccer. |
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Khunanup
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Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
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Post by Khunanup on Jan 17, 2018 13:29:33 GMT
Shinner MPs don't get any salary from public funds (the party does pay them). They are eligible for some of the office and staffing allowances, because they do employ staff and have offices in Parliament and in their constituencies. Indeed, that's the cash myself and Devil were referring to. They're pretend abstentionists that helps with their pathetic political posturing rather than anything concrete. If they had a shred of integrity they would take no money from the British state that they believe has no legitimacy (apparently) over those six counties of Ireland. But this is Sinn Fein isn't it...  |
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Post by timrollpickering on Jan 17, 2018 16:56:50 GMT
Shinner MPs don't get any salary from public funds (the party does pay them). They are eligible for some of the office and staffing allowances, because they do employ staff and have offices in Parliament and in their constituencies. Indeed at times they've been more active at Westminster than some other MPs - Cecil Walker, George Galloway and Jared O'Mara all spring to mind. |
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Post by curiousliberal on Jan 17, 2018 19:24:33 GMT
I've never heard of this edgy axis resistance is the actual Axis of Resistance, sometimes known as 'Axis + 1' is somebody is referring to Russia as part of the bloc. Resistance Axis fanboys are usually Westerners who hate their governments by default and sincerely believe in their own anti-imperialism. However, they fully support imperialism as long as it's carried out by any of these countries. They tend to have very left-wing or right-wing viewpoints when it comes to domestic politics, and are often (but not always) isolationists when it comes to their own countries' actions (but not others outside the West, of course), You'll find a lot of them on social media (or 'alternative media', which is alarmingly popular and heavily peddled by the Trump activist base) decrying the protests in the Islamic Republic of Iran as a Western ploy whilst simultaneously promoting Assad for his 'secularism'. I have to admire their capacity for doublethink, at least. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2018 19:40:49 GMT
We really really don’t like the DUP. And they don’t like us. We just feel it’s worth putting up with each other to stop Labour. I’d vote UUP any day of the week everything being equal as would the vast majority of us. Maybe DUP to stop the Shinners or SDLP, but through gritted teeth. I'd have little problem voting for the SDLP if needed. A little too left for my taste admittedly but committed to democracy in a way that SF weren't/aren't. It’s a Labour MP more or less. The name of the game is stopping them. I’d probably rather the SDLP run a country but that’s not really the pertinent question. |
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Khunanup
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Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
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Post by Khunanup on Jan 17, 2018 20:32:57 GMT
Don't know if I posted it at the time but this is a good reminded why a substantial proportion of the Nationalist community will never vote Sinn Fein and deplore the marginalisation of constitutional nationalism and the divisive politics in Northern Ireland. www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/people/i-ll-never-know-who-shot-my-father-or-why-1-6484507Leo's one of my Lib Dem colleagues on the council these days and a friend. The IRA penchant for targeting one of their 'own' (unmentioned in the article is that Leo's dad's parents were from from what is now Northern Ireland so he was culturally Irish by upbringing despite the accesnt and spent half his life in NI) is too often forgotten, as is the fact that the IRA were often pariahs in their 'own' community. |
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Jan 17, 2018 20:47:38 GMT
Some of you need to recognise that a peace process means nothing if you aren't prepared to move on.
I would vote Labour here, Sinn Fein if in NI and never Tory, LibDem or DUP anywhere.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2018 21:14:30 GMT
Some of you need to recognise that a peace process means nothing if you aren't prepared to move on. I would vote Labour here, Sinn Fein if in NI and never Tory, LibDem or DUP anywhere. I’d vote Sinn Fein in a SF - SDLP marginal. |
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Khunanup
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Post by Khunanup on Jan 17, 2018 21:34:09 GMT
Some of you need to recognise that a peace process means nothing if you aren't prepared to move on. I would vote Labour here, Sinn Fein if in NI and never Tory, LibDem or DUP anywhere. Hopelessly naive Mike. Hopelessly naive. Sinn Fein are a bunch of charlatans who have been bigged up far beyond what they needed to be by good meaning but likewise hopelessly naive senior politicians. You've spent most of this thread and others saying that the people who need to move on are trenchant unionists then I remind you that it's not just past violence against them that Sinn Fein made excuses for and, with significant exceptions, continues to do so. The Peace Process never intended to give the Sinners a free pass but that's what has effectively happened. They can get away with just about anything and people will justify it no matter how hypocritical they are, aided of course that they are opposing the DUP who likewise have a rather different dubious past that is almost completely expunged. It's the people of Northern Ireland who are let down by its politics, too often at the influence of outside forces (by neglect, collusion or being entirely misguided) and I grieve for them. It's a recurring nightmare and if nothing happens it could explode again (because the underlying fragility has never been tackled). |
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CatholicLeft
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Post by CatholicLeft on Jan 17, 2018 21:36:31 GMT
Some of you need to recognise that a peace process means nothing if you aren't prepared to move on. I would vote Labour here, Sinn Fein if in NI and never Tory, LibDem or DUP anywhere. Sorry, Sinn Fein continue to be a gang-related bunch of hypocrites. The sub-level violence comtinues daily and they do not condemn it,whilst many SF figures still avoid condemning past atrocities. Michelle O'Neill is a smiling face front. The naivity of so many surprises me. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2018 21:41:12 GMT
Some of you need to recognise that a peace process means nothing if you aren't prepared to move on. I would vote Labour here, Sinn Fein if in NI and never Tory, LibDem or DUP anywhere. Sorry, Sinn Fein continue to be a gang-related bunch of hypocrites. The sub-level violence comtinues daily and they do not condemn it,whilst many SF figures still avoid condemning past atrocities. Michelle O'Neill is a smiling face front. The naivity of so many surprises me. Yeh yeh and DUP are a bunch of triumphalist, Catholic hating, bowler hatted fascists... |
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CatholicLeft
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Post by CatholicLeft on Jan 17, 2018 21:49:20 GMT
Sorry, Sinn Fein continue to be a gang-related bunch of hypocrites. The sub-level violence comtinues daily and they do not condemn it,whilst many SF figures still avoid condemning past atrocities. Michelle O'Neill is a smiling face front. The naivity of so many surprises me. Yeh yeh and DUP are a bunch of triumphalist, Catholic hating, bowler hatted fascists... My opinion is based upon conversations with victims, IRA men and local activists. Your response is that of a troll which really surprises me. |
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
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Post by Khunanup on Jan 17, 2018 21:50:44 GMT
Yeh yeh and DUP are a bunch of triumphalist, Catholic hating, bowler hatted fascists... My opinion is based upon conversations with victims, IRA men and local activists. Your response is that of a troll which really surprises me. It surprises you?!  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2018 22:09:04 GMT
Yeh yeh and DUP are a bunch of triumphalist, Catholic hating, bowler hatted fascists... My opinion is based upon conversations with victims, IRA men and local activists. Your response is that of a troll which really surprises me. If SF are such hypocrites, tell me then what all this brouhaha is over the suspension of devolved government? Do you really think SF would go through this if they were not committed to the institutions and had no intention of treating it all seriously? I made the above point because it just shows how easily it is to fall into stereotyping and you fell for it. No side is perfect, it you want to criticise SF for not controlling its activists properly then please also note, the constant referral of the DUP to the past when ever difficulties arise in the administration of the province is proof they to can play an idiotic game just as well. How convenient that the original reason for this mess is the thing the Arleen would most like to forget, ie the energy saving scheme, whilst the DUP come up with ever more ingenious reasons not to go back into government Arleen's responsibility (or irresponsibility) in government is forgotten. So some republicans are acting in ways they shouldn't and what of the ex-Protestant paramilitaries, what have they been up to recently eh, knitting scarfs to keep warm in the cold Ulster nights? I think not. Move on for god's sake, nothing will change the past but for the sake of the children of Ulster it has to be done and there will better days to come. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2018 22:20:12 GMT
They sound like reactionaries. Not always left or right
Didnt SF gain an SDLP seat
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CatholicLeft
Labour
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Post by CatholicLeft on Jan 17, 2018 22:25:04 GMT
My opinion is based upon conversations with victims, IRA men and local activists. Your response is that of a troll which really surprises me. If SF are such hypocrites, tell me then what all this brouhaha is over the suspension of devolved government? Do you really think SF would go through this if they were not committed to the institutions and had no intention of treating it all seriously? I made the above point because it just shows how easily it is to fall into stereotyping and you fell for it. No side is perfect, it you want to criticise SF for not controlling its activists properly then please also note, the constant referral of the DUP to the past when ever difficulties arise in the administration of the province is proof they to can play an idiotic game just as well. How convenient that the original reason for this mess is the thing the Arleen would most like to forget, ie the energy saving scheme, whilst the DUP come up with ever more ingenious reasons not to go back into government Arleen's responsibility (or irresponsibility) in government is forgotten. So some republicans are acting in ways they shouldn't and what of the ex-Protestant paramilitaries, what have they been up to recently eh, knitting scarfs to keep warm in the cold Ulster nights? I think not. Move on for god's sake, nothing will change the past but for the sake of the children of Ulster it has to be done and their will better days to come. I have regularly criticised the DUP and their ridiculous attempts to pretend they are not connected to loyalist paramilitaries. Ian Paisley's rhetoric was responsible for ramping up Loyalist anger and, I believe, led to the killing of innocent Catholics. I have no truck with the DUP at all. My original response was to Mike's suggestion he would vote SF, so why would I have referred to the DUP? I repeat...your intemperate response surprises me. |
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CatholicLeft
Labour
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Post by CatholicLeft on Jan 17, 2018 22:27:32 GMT
They sound like reactionaries. Not always left or right Didnt SF gain an SDLP seat Interestingly, the SDLP was a socialist foundation, with lots of middle-class urban support. Sinn Fein were the catch-all Republicans with rural conservative support. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2018 22:31:25 GMT
If SF are such hypocrites, tell me then what all this brouhaha is over the suspension of devolved government? Do you really think SF would go through this if they were not committed to the institutions and had no intention of treating it all seriously? I made the above point because it just shows how easily it is to fall into stereotyping and you fell for it. No side is perfect, it you want to criticise SF for not controlling its activists properly then please also note, the constant referral of the DUP to the past when ever difficulties arise in the administration of the province is proof they to can play an idiotic game just as well. How convenient that the original reason for this mess is the thing the Arleen would most like to forget, ie the energy saving scheme, whilst the DUP come up with ever more ingenious reasons not to go back into government Arleen's responsibility (or irresponsibility) in government is forgotten. So some republicans are acting in ways they shouldn't and what of the ex-Protestant paramilitaries, what have they been up to recently eh, knitting scarfs to keep warm in the cold Ulster nights? I think not. Move on for god's sake, nothing will change the past but for the sake of the children of Ulster it has to be done and their will better days to come. I have regularly criticised the DUP and their ridiculous attempts to pretend they are not connected to loyalist paramilitaries. Ian Paisley's rhetoric was responsible for ramping up Loyalist anger and, I believe led to the killing of innocent Catholics. I have no truck with the DUP at all. My original response was to Mike's suggestion he would vote SF, so why would I have referred to the DUP? I repeat...your intemperate response surprises me. I know that, but you weren't exactly whispering. Ok lets set a truce and not raise this one again. You don't want SF to win this seat, Merseymike does, and I too want it, because it keeps the DUP on its toes anything that makes their life more difficult is a good thing. |
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