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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2018 13:25:08 GMT
I accept the direction of the Labour Party and it’s members but I genuinely believe the SDLP would stand up to Jeremy if he tried to force them down that road in a whipped vote. If they can stand up to terrorists with guns they can stand up to a dodgy vegetarian pensioner. TBH, I would prefer a Unionist to win but as you pointed out that’s very unlikely. Overall though it seems the days of the moderate and decent SDLP and UUP are probably numbered unfortunately. My point was that it would potentially be another vote in the Commons to put Corbyn into Downing Street, not that they would share his sympathies wrt Republican terrorism (which presumably they would not) For the umpteenth time Corbyn does not pander to terrorists. |
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Post by jimboo2017 on Jan 16, 2018 13:44:49 GMT
My point was that it would potentially be another vote in the Commons to put Corbyn into Downing Street, not that they would share his sympathies wrt Republican terrorism (which presumably they would not) For the umpteenth time Corbyn does not pander to terrorists. Terrorises Panda's though, they wont survive in a world full of vegans |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Jan 16, 2018 14:01:26 GMT
As per usual when we're discussing Northern Ireland, an awful lot of shite is being talked.
Anyway, yes, this is a border constituency, although Brexit is unlikely to move that many votes, as both SF and SDLP are resolutely opposed and as unionist farmers aren't going to vote for a Nationalist party anyway. Nor is McElduff - yes, what he did was stupid and unpleasant, but this is Northern Ireland and we can be sure somebody else will have done something stupid and unpleasant before the by-election.
What might be an issue is the suspension of Holyrood and the fact that MLAs are still drawing salaries. That creates an opportunity for the SDLP to attack. I can't see them taking it, but they've got an opportunity to try to stick it to SF and given that they haven't got any Westminster seats I'd be surprised if they don't put a lot of effort in here.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2018 14:07:53 GMT
For the umpteenth time Corbyn does not pander to terrorists. Terrorises Panda's though, they wont survive in a world full of vegans Pandas are vegans, can't see vegans taking up bamboo though |
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Post by beastofbedfordshire on Jan 16, 2018 15:10:54 GMT
Good to see this MP has resigned. If only Jared O’Mara could do the same... You know its bad when sf beats you in the ethics department. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2018 15:24:17 GMT
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johnloony
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Post by johnloony on Jan 16, 2018 16:04:22 GMT
How did McElduff resign? Did he do the normal method of writing to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, asking to be appointed to the Chiltern Hundreds, or did he use the Sinn Fein method of writing to the Speaker to say that he had "resigned"?
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jan 16, 2018 16:31:59 GMT
How did McElduff resign? Did he do the normal method of writing to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, asking to be appointed to the Chiltern Hundreds, or did he use the Sinn Fein method of writing to the Speaker to say that he had "resigned"? Barry McElduff remains MP for West Tyrone at the time of writing, so the question does not arise. |
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Jan 16, 2018 16:32:01 GMT
How did McElduff resign? Did he do the normal method of writing to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, asking to be appointed to the Chiltern Hundreds, or did he use the Sinn Fein method of writing to the Speaker to say that he had "resigned"? Given they don't formally take their seats that's an interesting point |
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Post by LDCaerdydd on Jan 16, 2018 16:39:24 GMT
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Jan 16, 2018 16:45:49 GMT
A whipped vote on what, exactly?
Seriously guys, engage with the real world, thank you.
He could try to change the Labour party’s position on Northern Irish ones from one of Neutrality to one favourable to Sinn Fein. Frankly to be blunt, you and your colleagues are the ones who don’t live in the real world. Jeremy Corbyn has associated with terrorists, bigots, anti semites, homophobes, hostile foreign governments, terrorists all throughout his political career and Labour people act like it was all innocent and he’s some yet to be canonised saint. He isn’t, he’s a scumbag. So don’t throw stones and give suggestions to others in that condescending manner because you and your party are in the biggest of all glass houses. Just a suggestion. OK @davidr , I'm not a big fan of Corbyn's position on The Troubles, nor his general attitude to terrorism (which I'd characterise as childishly simplistic rather than scumbaggery) but I don't see how Labour under Corbyn are "pro-IRA" in any meaningful sense. We do have a peace process of sorts and the Provisional IRA may still exist as a glorified crime gang but terrorism from them is not an issue. Like it or not (I don't) SF are a major party in NI already and as such entitled to be in govt there under power-sharing, so I don't see any particular way that a Labour govt could "push" in that direction (leaving aside the political risks to their mainstream support in the UK, which is far from sympathetic to the IRA). In any event one or two SDLP MPs (or even 7) is not a big deal when it comes to the likelihood of Corbyn getting into No 10. There is, to be blunt, a much bigger risk of your party "pushing things in a DUP direction" and I'm afraid the DUP does not have clean hands on paramilitary activities either (see previous threads on here passim). At the very least May's deal with the DUP reinforces the latter's position as successful providers of pork to their electorate and the DUP's dominance of unionist politics has to be a factor in pushing Catholic voters to SF. EDIT: sorry, David, I've slightly conflated your point with that of Pete above you, I don't want to attribute views to you that you don't hold, but I'm trying to address the issue of whether Corbyn's history wrt the IRA has much bearing on the consequences of either SF or the SDLP winning here. |
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Post by yellowperil on Jan 16, 2018 16:47:26 GMT
How did McElduff resign? Did he do the normal method of writing to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, asking to be appointed to the Chiltern Hundreds, or did he use the Sinn Fein method of writing to the Speaker to say that he had "resigned"? Barry McElduff remains MP for West Tyrone at the time of writing, so the question does not arise. true for less than ten minutes! |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 16, 2018 16:53:33 GMT
Ha, I was at uni with Marcus Walker! |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 16, 2018 16:59:15 GMT
How did McElduff resign? Did he do the normal method of writing to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, asking to be appointed to the Chiltern Hundreds, or did he use the Sinn Fein method of writing to the Speaker to say that he had "resigned"? Given they don't formally take their seats that's an interesting point They still take the cash though, which possibly is more relevant to proceedings. They might not take their seats but they remain elected representatives. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 16, 2018 17:00:15 GMT
Not the first time he has been mooted. Excellent player in his time. |
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Jan 16, 2018 17:02:35 GMT
Tbf if Ian Paisley and Martin McGuinness could work together its proof that despite the rhetoric we have moved beyond the troubles. If only the current leadership could take heed Immensely true up to a point, but not beyond. Yes, Paisley and McGuinness (of all people) worked together, yes the risk of major terrorism (still less the near civil war scenario of the mid-70s) has receded; but we are supposed to be in a peace process and it seems to me to have rather stalled. I had hoped that once people did not fear that the other side's terrorists were coming to kill them, political support for their own terrorists would ebb away, but this has not really happened. Nor has the basic political divide shifted towards "normal" politics, not even to the extent of there being "Loyalist" Socialists or "Republican" Conservatives and vice versa. Upthread Merseymike said he'd vote SF because they have a socialist wing and I can understand his dilemma - as a socialist he couldn't vote DUP or UUP (or even APNI; maybe GPNI at a pinch) and he judges the SDLP to be out of the race, so SF it is. Yet he's on record as having no time for nationalism. There's no progress in weaning NI politics away from an argument about national identity, though there's been massive progress in reaching point where (almost) no-one feels the need to kill people over it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2018 17:08:54 GMT
He could try to change the Labour party’s position on Northern Irish ones from one of Neutrality to one favourable to Sinn Fein. Frankly to be blunt, you and your colleagues are the ones who don’t live in the real world. Jeremy Corbyn has associated with terrorists, bigots, anti semites, homophobes, hostile foreign governments, terrorists all throughout his political career and Labour people act like it was all innocent and he’s some yet to be canonised saint. He isn’t, he’s a scumbag. So don’t throw stones and give suggestions to others in that condescending manner because you and your party are in the biggest of all glass houses. Just a suggestion. OK @davidr , I'm not a big fan of Corbyn's position on The Troubles, nor his general attitude to terrorism (which I'd characterise as childishly simplistic rather than scumbaggery) but I don't see how Labour under Corbyn are "pro-IRA" in any meaningful sense. We do have a peace process of sorts and the Provisional IRA may still exist as a glorified crime gang but terrorism from them is not an issue. Like it or not (I don't) SF are a major party in NI already and as such entitled to be in govt there under power-sharing, so I don't see any particular way that a Labour govt could "push" in that direction (leaving aside the political risks to their mainstream support in the UK, which is far from sympathetic to the IRA). In any event one or two SDLP MPs (or even 7) is not a big deal when it comes to the likelihood of Corbyn getting into No 10. There is, to be blunt, a much bigger risk of your party "pushing things in a DUP direction" and I'm afraid the DUP does not have clean hands on paramilitary activities either (see previous threads on here passim). At the very least May's deal with the DUP reinforces the latter's position as successful providers of pork to their electorate and the DUP's dominance of unionist politics has to be a factor in pushing Catholic voters to SF. I disagree that he’s childish, I think he knows what he’s doing. He must, he’s backed every anti western terrorist, government and organisation since about 1968. I’m also not saying Labour are pro-IRA atm, what I’m saying is given recent developments in Labour, given it’s shifting power structure and given the nature of many of those who’ve joined I am extremely worried about the future direction of Labour. I’d also say, if Jeremy Corbyn is in a room with SF and the DUP you can’t tell me he’s going to treat them both the same, he just isn’t. He might pay lip service to Unionism, but his heart isn’t in it. On the SDLP I have nothing against them other than their republicanism. In fact I respect them for standing up to the IRA and the UVF and for their non violence when surrounded by, and when they’ve been the victims, of it. As for the DUP, I’m not in favour of the deal. When Ruth spoke about her concerns she spoke for the Scottish Party IMO. I don’t like the DUP’s ideas, I’m gay FFS, I don’t like their ultra Presbyterian insanity either, However, I assure you the Conservative and Unionist Party is not going to endanger the Union we love by doing something stupid like picking sides in N. Ireland. We just aren’t. It’s justshady, grubby pork barrel politics with more money going to all of N. Ireland. I don’t like it but it’s a fait accompli now. I almost forgot, I don’t think Labour metropolitan voters care about the IRA and what they did. Those in the North Of England and Wales do, those in certain parts of Scotland do, but in London, Liverpool and places like that, I don’t think they do. There’s also an issue of age, most people my age know little and care even less about the IRA. I do because it directly touched my family more than once, but for most they don’t. |
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Jan 16, 2018 17:17:18 GMT
Tbf if Ian Paisley and Martin McGuinness could work together its proof that despite the rhetoric we have moved beyond the troubles. If only the current leadership could take heed Immensely true up to a point, but not beyond. Yes, Paisley and McGuinness (of all people) worked together, yes the risk of major terrorism (still less the near civil war scenario of the mid-70s) has receded; but we are supposed to be in a peace process and it seems to me to have rather stalled. I had hoped that once people did not fear that the other side's terrorists were coming to kill them, political support for their own terrorists would ebb away, but this has not really happened. Nor has the basic political divide shifted towards "normal" politics, not even to the extent of there being "Loyalist" Socialists or "Republican" Conservatives and vice versa. Upthread Merseymike said he'd vote SF because they have a socialist wing and I can understand his dilemma - as a socialist he couldn't vote DUP or UUP (or even APNI; maybe GPNI at a pinch) and he judges the SDLP to be out of the race, so SF it is. Yet he's on record as having no time for nationalism. There's no progress in weaning NI politics away from an argument about national identity, though there's been massive progress in reaching point where (almost) no-one feels the need to kill people over it. Oh I accept that there's no perfect option though given the behaviour of unionists in the past Irish nationalism is more than understandable. However SF do have a socialist wing and they do have many policies I agree with. For me though it's also about cementing them into the political structure to make sure we don't go back to killing. Its more intriguing that both unionist parties remain right wing. My unionist friend in Larne votes APNI though it's a case of for him the best of a bad job. His sister is a mate of Arlene's! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2018 17:25:20 GMT
As ive said before friends of mine escaped IRA attack on a couple of occasions so i dont need to be lectured on being metropolitan and uncaring.
The other issue is the SDLPs views on abortion, etc. Tbf Labour members have stood for council and assembly as Independents.
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Khunanup
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Post by Khunanup on Jan 16, 2018 17:32:08 GMT
Given they don't formally take their seats that's an interesting point They still take the cash though, which possibly is more relevant to proceedings. Indeed, as I've said many times before, they are base hypocrites. |
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