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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2018 11:36:57 GMT
I disagree with your opinion in your first paragraph, the Russians I’ve met talk about an end to corruption and making their voices heard. I agree about Poland though, it’s a worrying situation. However, I will read that article, later. It’s already 9:47 and I need to go out or I’ll get in a LOT of trouble😂. But I doubt whether the Russians you have met are living in the Russian countryside or small towns. We get a very slanted view because we hear from the urban educated middle class. If the perspectives from the UK came from say Lowestoft or Wigan rather than London a very different picture would be created! You’re right. The Russians I know are from Nizhny, Moscow, St Petersburg and Artyom. I think there’s more than an element of truth in what you say, which is why I like democratically debating people I disagree with😜. That said, I think it’s important to advocate freedom and democracy though and I’ll always try to do that. It’s what I profoundly believe, like Socialism for you I suppose. |
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Mar 19, 2018 12:05:39 GMT
But I doubt whether the Russians you have met are living in the Russian countryside or small towns. We get a very slanted view because we hear from the urban educated middle class. If the perspectives from the UK came from say Lowestoft or Wigan rather than London a very different picture would be created! You’re right. The Russians I know are from Nizhny, Moscow, St Petersburg and Artyom. I think there’s more than an element of truth in what you say, which is why I like democratically debating people I disagree with😜. That said, I think it’s important to advocate freedom and democracy though and I’ll always try to do that. It’s what I profoundly believe, like Socialism for you I suppose. Oh, don't misunderstand - I'm no fan of either Putin or the Russian system. I think, though, that there was a degree of naivety - which assumed that economic liberalisation would almost automatically lead to political openness and increased personal freedom. In both Russia and particularly China, it could be argued that the opposite has happened. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2018 12:12:04 GMT
You’re right. The Russians I know are from Nizhny, Moscow, St Petersburg and Artyom. I think there’s more than an element of truth in what you say, which is why I like democratically debating people I disagree with😜. That said, I think it’s important to advocate freedom and democracy though and I’ll always try to do that. It’s what I profoundly believe, like Socialism for you I suppose. Oh, don't misunderstand - I'm no fan of either Putin or the Russian system. I think, though, that there was a degree of naivety - which assumed that economic liberalisation would almost automatically lead to political openness and increased personal freedom. In both Russia and particularly China, it could be argued that the opposite has happened. Agreed. I literally just listened to an excellent podcast about China’s retreat from liberalisation and how under “The Great Helmsman” it’s almost becoming the modern face of totalitarianism. BTW, I don’t think you’re a Putinist. |
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Post by tamar on Mar 19, 2018 12:49:03 GMT
Actually there has been evidence which displays that in some Eastern European countries the youth are becoming more authoritarian. Poland is a good example. The evidence for Poland displays mostly that most of the youth don't care about politics and don't feel capable of defining their political views to any meaningful extent, and that minority which does is attracted to parties that pose as anti-establishment, which happen to be authoritarian. |
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Mar 19, 2018 12:53:10 GMT
Actually there has been evidence which displays that in some Eastern European countries the youth are becoming more authoritarian. Poland is a good example. The evidence for Poland displays mostly that most of the youth don't care about politics and don't feel capable of defining their political views to any meaningful extent, and that minority which does is attracted to parties that pose as anti-establishment, which happen to be authoritarian. Yes. I'll bow to your insider knowledge! I've met a few Poles over here, and it was notable how quite a few considered themselves left-liberal, and were utterly sceptical, if not cynical , about Polish politics. I'm certainly aware that Polish gay people came here as they perceived it to be a more open environment. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Mar 19, 2018 15:23:03 GMT
No, I can’t stand Alexei Navalny. Putin, Navalny, Zhirinovsky etc. they’re all antisemitic, homophobic, racist etc.. Russian politics is like that, have you ever seen Russian state tv? I don’t excuse it and I don’t like it, in fact I hate it, but the only way those attitudes will change is with democracy. Which the Russians are very sceptical about - and since when has it been a panacea anyway? They've never really experienced it. Yeltsin was barely a democrat, his re-election was a sham, and he came close to declaring himself dictator. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Mar 19, 2018 15:26:10 GMT
The city is St Petersburg but the oblast around it remains known as Leningrad Oblast. Thank you,now I understand. I was looking at David's message, looking at my screen in Russian, translating it into English, and wondering what sort of parallel universe I was in where I was in Leningrad heaven while David was condemned to St Petersburg hell. I suppose the question reasserts itself though as why if they change the name of the city back to St Petersburg did they leave the name of the Oblast as Leningrad? Or was it a way of commemorating the history of the heroes of the Great Patriotic War? I can't find a reason but I can't think of a better, more likely explanation that your theory about the Second World War. I'll see if I can find something else to explain it. |
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Mar 19, 2018 21:47:45 GMT
Those 70% and 75% for Putin in Moscow and St.Petersburg are remarkable, aren't they?
Probably the places, where the vote wasn't rigged so heavily and still such strong support.
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Mar 20, 2018 12:37:39 GMT
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Apr 2, 2018 15:15:46 GMT
However when you ask the young what they want, and the old about their hopes for their children, they describe a Russia which is liberal and democratic. We've clearly been to different parts of Russia, then. |
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Apr 2, 2018 15:17:53 GMT
The evidence for Poland displays mostly that most of the youth don't care about politics and don't feel capable of defining their political views to any meaningful extent, and that minority which does is attracted to parties that pose as anti-establishment, which happen to be authoritarian. Yes. I'll bow to your insider knowledge! I've met a few Poles over here, and it was notable how quite a few considered themselves left-liberal, and were utterly sceptical, if not cynical , about Polish politics. A lot of them are quite traditionalist. |
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Apr 2, 2018 15:35:50 GMT
Yes. I'll bow to your insider knowledge! I've met a few Poles over here, and it was notable how quite a few considered themselves left-liberal, and were utterly sceptical, if not cynical , about Polish politics. A lot of them are quite traditionalist. Most of the ones I've met have been gay and came here to get away from that! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2018 16:03:10 GMT
However when you ask the young what they want, and the old about their hopes for their children, they describe a Russia which is liberal and democratic. We've clearly been to different parts of Russia, then. Maybe, it also depends on who you spoke to and if they felt able to talk. I reiterate my friends, their families and so on from and in Russia, that I’ve spoken to, and who are willing to talk politics, want a corruption free future where they can take decisions about their future. Currently many are content, just, with the new Czar because most Russians remember the 1990’s. They don’t want a dictatorial corrupt government where they have to watch what they say, because the FSB is everywhere, forever though. You also can’t underestimate just how European many Russians, even in the far, Far East think they are. They know what we have, they know how we live and those that I know eventually want that too. |
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Sept 9, 2018 20:20:02 GMT
Today regional and local elections were held.
In the city of Moscow the incumbent Independent, who had once worked around Putin, should be easily reelected according to OpinionPolls.
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Sept 10, 2018 12:23:20 GMT
MoscowCity:
31% Part.
70% Ind. (inc.)
11% CP
07% A Just R.
07% LDPR
02% Union of Citizens
03% others
ElectionDay was overshadowed by protests against the PensionCuts.
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Sept 10, 2018 16:55:45 GMT
According to media UnitedRussia suffered the worst results since the DirectElection of governors was reintroduced in 2012.
In 4 out of ~80 regions RunOffs will have to take place, in 1 each CP and LDPR came in on the top aso.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Sept 16, 2018 22:32:57 GMT
Hmm.
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mondialito
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Post by mondialito on Sept 16, 2018 22:39:04 GMT
Hmm, I wonder if it would have best for the powers that be to allow the defeat to happen. Surely in a 'managed democracy' like Russia, an occasional defeat in a relatively low profile contest would help keep the lie that any of it matters going. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Sept 17, 2018 15:59:59 GMT
I remember a conspiracy theory that the Premier League engineered Leicester's victory for similar reasons!
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Oct 3, 2018 12:48:16 GMT
What has happened in the 4 regions with RunOffs?
- Primorje: Here the fraud in the final steps of counting was so obvious, that the federal ElectoralCommission ordered new elections.
- Chabarowsk: Federal UnitedRussia urged for a broad coalition, nontheless the LDPR-candidate won.
- Vladimir: Federal UnitedRussia urged here for a broad coalition, too; but won't be likely to succeed.
- Chakassia: The UR-cand. retreated; uncertain, whether the CP-cand. will take over or new elections have to be held.
Rumours have been reported, that Putin is planning to establish more parties in order to split the opposition.
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