neilm
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Post by neilm on Dec 21, 2017 4:29:49 GMT
I'm currently in Barcelona now. I'm surprised how "quiet" it seems. Ciudadanos appear to be the most visible with leafleters and posters, followed closely by PSOE. Quite a few ERC posters too and I've seen one row of PP posters. Not seen any JxCat, Podemos or CUP paraphernalia. There are of course tons of Spanish and Catalan flags of various hues as well as separatist flags and yellow ribbons. Have you got any pictures/photos? |
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WJ
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Post by WJ on Dec 21, 2017 9:10:07 GMT
I'm currently in Barcelona now. I'm surprised how "quiet" it seems. Ciudadanos appear to be the most visible with leafleters and posters, followed closely by PSOE. Quite a few ERC posters too and I've seen one row of PP posters. Not seen any JxCat, Podemos or CUP paraphernalia. There are of course tons of Spanish and Catalan flags of various hues as well as separatist flags and yellow ribbons. Have you got any pictures/photos? I'll endeavour to get some today. My favourites are the ERC which have a picture of Junqueras and the text "democracy always wins". It makes me want to draw prison bars over it and write: "Yes, it does" |
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Dec 21, 2017 10:36:23 GMT
Have you got any pictures/photos? I'll endeavour to get some today. My favourites are the ERC which have a picture of Junqueras and the text "democracy always wins". It makes me want to draw prison bars over it and write: "Yes, it does" I would be very interested to see those as well. What's the weather like there? Looks like turnout might be high as the mayor has called for, in spite of the timing and the sheer frequency of votes in Catalonia. Now now, less of the vandalism! Had the poster said "the rule of law always wins" then you might have had a point.  I don't agree with the ERC's ultimate goal or the method that Puigdemont and Junqueras were trying to use to get there, but it can't be right that one major party leader is out of the country and another is in prison during an election campaign. That is not in keeping with democratic norms in developed, civilised countries. Let them hold rallies and make fools of themselves instead of turning them into martyrs, I say. Barcelona is more unionist than the rest of Catalonia – but it's also under-represented through deliberate malapportionment so Ciutadans would need a clear lead in the popular vote to end up as the largest party in terms of seats. People with the yellow ribbons up in their windows and on their balconies (in support of the release of certain prisoners – some of whom are definitely political) are probably voting for ERC, JxCat or the CUP. Keep in mind that a win for either ERC or Ciutadans would be utterly remarkable in a recent historical context. The ERC go right back to the Second Republic but were never more than the second-largest left-wing party and the second-largest catalanista one after the transition, although they were always the biggest group to call for outright independence. That meant the best they could hope for was to be junior coalition partners to the PSC, a role they played from 2003 to 2010. The notion of them becoming the most voted party has only become credible over the past couple of years, really. Ciutadans didn't even exist for over a quarter of a century following the return to democracy. It wasn't quite clear what niche they filled when they entered Parliament with just 3 seats in 2006. Now after steady growth they appear to be on the verge of becoming the main recipients of unionist tactical, or 'useful', votes. If they somehow won and put a pact together, there are whispers that Inés Arrimadas (who was apparently subdued in most of the seven-way debates) might make way for previous leader Albert Rivera who made the jump to Spain-wide politics in 2015 to little success. |
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WJ
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Post by WJ on Dec 21, 2017 12:32:43 GMT
It's clear and sunny here. Slightly warmer than the previous days, my phone says 13°C
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2017 18:01:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2017 18:03:07 GMT
Turnout at 6 pm at 68.3%. Up ca. 5 points on 2015 (which should be good for C)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2017 18:04:29 GMT
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WJ
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Post by WJ on Dec 21, 2017 18:22:17 GMT
Watching the local news coverage. Turnout in unionist areas such as Tarragona is relatively higher than 2015 and hasnt increased much in pro independence areas like Girona.
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WJ
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Post by WJ on Dec 21, 2017 18:30:31 GMT
Highest ever turnout in a Spanish election was 79.97% in the 1982 election. They are predicting a higher turnout tonight.
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WJ
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Post by WJ on Dec 21, 2017 18:47:24 GMT
L'Hospitalet, one of Barcelona's satellite towns, has the highest increase in turnout at 7%
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Dec 21, 2017 19:29:55 GMT
Watching the local news coverage. Turnout in unionist areas such as Tarragona is relatively higher than 2015 and hasnt increased much in pro independence areas like Girona. That's interesting but it won't affect the seat distribution. The overrepresentation of the three non-Barcelona provinces is fixed in law. An exit poll says that Ciutadans will win more seats than any of the earlier polls were expecting, but that the three pro-independence parties between them will still have a majority... so the election essentially solves nothing. The only part of it that will bring a slight "return to normality" (the Spanish government's reasoning for dissolving Parliament two months ago) is the re-splitting of Junts pel Sí into its constituent parts. They've just started counting the votes. TV coverage in Spanish here and in Catalan here. |
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WJ
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Post by WJ on Dec 21, 2017 20:22:06 GMT
Still very early days, only 6% of the vote is in. But Ciudadanos is doing well. They've taken at least one seat from JxCat in Girona.
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Dec 21, 2017 20:58:42 GMT
Still very early days, only 6% of the vote is in. But Ciudadanos is doing well. They've taken at least one seat from JxCat in Girona. If you're watching the Spanish coverage, the phrasing might be confusing you. When they said Party X has taken a seat from Party Y in a particular province, it means the former is up a seat compared to a few minutes ago in the count, not that the latter has lost a seat with respect to the past election (in this case 2015, when JxCat were parts of JxSí in any event). |
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WJ
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Post by WJ on Dec 21, 2017 21:08:35 GMT
50% of the vote in. So far Ciudadanos are up the most, followed by ERC/JxCat and PSC. Podemos, CUP and PP all down.
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WJ
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Post by WJ on Dec 21, 2017 21:11:58 GMT
Watching the local news coverage. Turnout in unionist areas such as Tarragona is relatively higher than 2015 and hasnt increased much in pro independence areas like Girona. That's interesting but it won't affect the seat distribution. The overrepresentation of the three non-Barcelona provinces is fixed in law. An exit poll says that Ciutadans will win more seats than any of the earlier polls were expecting, but that the three pro-independence parties between them will still have a majority... so the election essentially solves nothing. The only part of it that will bring a slight "return to normality" (the Spanish government's reasoning for dissolving Parliament two months ago) is the re-splitting of Junts pel Sí into its constituent parts. They've just started counting the votes. TV coverage in Spanish here and in Catalan here. No, but it may have an affect on the seat distribution within those regions. Considering that it's the small, rural, independence voting, towns that tend to report first, Ciudadanos are doing better than the exit polls would suggest. |
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WJ
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Post by WJ on Dec 21, 2017 21:15:09 GMT
Still very early days, only 6% of the vote is in. But Ciudadanos is doing well. They've taken at least one seat from JxCat in Girona. If you're watching the Spanish coverage, the phrasing might be confusing you. When they said Party X has taken a seat from Party Y in a particular province, it means the former is up a seat compared to a few minutes ago in the count, not that the latter has lost a seat with respect to the past election (in this case 2015, when JxCat were parts of JxSí in any event). Thanks for clarifying my meaning, despite the patronising tone. 67% in in Girona. Ciudadanos still up at the expense of either ERC or JxCat. |
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Dec 21, 2017 21:30:10 GMT
That's interesting but it won't affect the seat distribution. The overrepresentation of the three non-Barcelona provinces is fixed in law. An exit poll says that Ciutadans will win more seats than any of the earlier polls were expecting, but that the three pro-independence parties between them will still have a majority... so the election essentially solves nothing. The only part of it that will bring a slight "return to normality" (the Spanish government's reasoning for dissolving Parliament two months ago) is the re-splitting of Junts pel Sí into its constituent parts. They've just started counting the votes. TV coverage in Spanish here and in Catalan here. No, but it may have an affect on the seat distribution within those regions. No, it might have an effect on it. If you're watching the Spanish coverage, the phrasing might be confusing you. When they said Party X has taken a seat from Party Y in a particular province, it means the former is up a seat compared to a few minutes ago in the count, not that the latter has lost a seat with respect to the past election (in this case 2015, when JxCat were parts of JxSí in any event). Thanks for clarifying my meaning, despite the patronising tone. You may well have known what you meant (though it didn't come across that way), but it was important to explain what 'taking a seat' means in the context of Spanish coverage for other readers. Tone of voice doesn't really come across well in the written word online, but please don't start seeing offence where none was intended. According to TV3, it's up to 70.9% counted now. As it stands, neither the CUP nor the PP has enough seats to form a parliamentary group in their own right. Results from the Barcelona area are likely to bring both parties' vote shares up slightly, mind. |
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WJ
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Post by WJ on Dec 21, 2017 21:36:20 GMT
No, but it may have an affect on the seat distribution within those regions. No, it might have an effect on it. Thanks for clarifying my meaning, despite the patronising tone. You may well have known what you meant (though it didn't come across that way), but it was important to explain what 'taking a seat' means in the context of Spanish coverage for other readers. Tone of voice doesn't really come across well in the written word online, but please don't start seeing offence where none was intended. According to TV3, it's up to 70.9% counted now. As it stands, neither the CUP nor the PP has enough seats to form a parliamentary group in their own right. Results from the Barcelona area are likely to bring both parties' vote shares up slightly, mind. Thanks |
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Post by dizz on Dec 21, 2017 21:54:28 GMT
Separatist parties presently on 70 of 135 seats & hard to see them not getting a majority of at least 68.
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WJ
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Post by WJ on Dec 21, 2017 21:57:41 GMT
Separatist parties presently on 70 of 135 seats & hard to see them not getting a majority of at least 68. It hinges on what CUP will do. They have said that they will boycott parliament unless whoever wins follows their programme. Though what they will do in the cold light of tomorrow morning is another matter. |
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I don't agree with the ERC's ultimate goal or the method that Puigdemont and Junqueras were trying to use to get there, but it can't be right that one major party leader is out of the country and another is in prison during an election campaign. That is not in keeping with democratic norms in developed, civilised countries. Let them hold rallies and make fools of themselves instead of turning them into martyrs, I say. 
