|
Post by manchesterman on Jan 9, 2021 20:02:37 GMT
I was going to give the Boss kudos for great foresight, but deep down I think we all feared it may end like it did...
|
|
|
Post by manchesterman on Jan 9, 2021 15:42:16 GMT
Trump has stated he will not attend the Biden inauguration. Oh the grand old dork called Trump He had ten thousand men He marched them up to Capitol Hill Then he ran away from them
And when they were up he was up And when they were down he was down And when they were only half way up He made plans to leave town
Trad, arrange Finso.
I have a re-draft for your consideration, Finso?
Oh the man child from New York He had ten thousand men He marched them up to Capitol Hill Then he ran away from them
And when they were up he was up And when they were down he was down And when they were only half way up They took his twitter down
|
|
|
Post by manchesterman on Jan 9, 2021 14:46:11 GMT
..but arent you going somewhat down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole yourself here, mate? There is no such thing as absolute freedom, I hope everyone agrees.
|
|
|
Post by manchesterman on Jan 9, 2021 12:32:19 GMT
What mechanisms could be used to do this though? Surely, whilst Trump is still C-in-C he could theoretically say to an aide "bring me the nuclear codes" and there is nothing , legally, that Pence or anyone could do to stop him? They could simply ignore him. In any event does not the the use of nuclear weapons require a certain level of insecurity? I have seen films refer to Defcon 1, Defcon 2, etc. To cover the level of threat. Nuclear weapons could only be launched at something like Defcon 5. Ok that is from films but there must be security built into such weapons systems. I remain convinced that the military high command are talking to Pence and the Congressional leadership including Pelosi and McConnell and not to Trump. Anyone can see that Trump is as mad as a bag of frogs at the moment issuing contradictory statements. He issued the ‘hostage statement’ yesterday followed by a more inflammatory Tweet which finally got him banned from Twitter for good. But isnt that the capt Bligh/Fletcher Christian situation? Whilst Christian et al had "right" on their side, technically it was Mutiny, as Bligh was in charge and issuing direct orders which they were disobeying. This would surely be Mutiny - on a technical level - for disobeying/ignoring the direct orders of the C-in-C.
|
|
|
Post by manchesterman on Jan 9, 2021 12:27:48 GMT
I could conceive of enough GOP Senators being persuaded (after all its for a few days, not months, and he would of course be replaced by Pence, a proper Republican); however I think the problem would be getting enough GOP Reps to join in. For that reason, I dont see impeachment working; only 25th amendment could do it - otherwise we will just have to sit tight with fingers crossed till 20th January Impeachment requires only a simple majority in the House, whereas the 25th requires a 2/3 majority. You have this the wrong way around. Yeah I appreciate that (and I did type it at 3am)!
However I was trying to put myself in the role of a "normal" GOP House member. Given that the Dems have said "we will impeach if you dont invoke 25th Amdt"; I have a decision to make. Do I do nothing and take the risk that enough GOP Senators vote against impeachment [and remember if he is impeached he wouldnt be able to run for office again, which would infuriate the millions of trumpers who would blame the GOP for not preventing this and presumably refuse to vote GOP or vote for an alternate candidate in forthcoming elections]; OR do I try to use this argument to persuade colleagues that it is in the best interests of the party to vote for 25th Amdt to effectively stand Trump down for what would basically be a week when it's all is said & done, replace him with a popular GOP figure (Pence) and explain to the Trump base that this was done to prevent impeachment that would prevent Trump from standing in 2024. I know it requires more GOP House members to back it (and wont happen) but the rationale is sound IMO.
|
|
|
Post by manchesterman on Jan 9, 2021 12:09:28 GMT
I could conceive of enough GOP Senators being persuaded (after all its for a few days, not months, and he would of course be replaced by Pence, a proper Republican); however I think the problem would be getting enough GOP Reps to join in. For that reason, I dont see impeachment working; only 25th amendment could do it - otherwise we will just have to sit tight with fingers crossed till 20th January The 25th Amendment route isn't happening for the simple reason that Pence does not want to use that option. He knows that it would destroy any chances he had of winning the GOP nomination in 2024. Had Pence been planning to invoke the 25th then DeVos and Chao wouldn't have resigned. However Pence also knows that if Trump were able to do something really silly in the next 11 days that would be very bad for him. This is partly why I am pretty confident that Pence along with Chris Miller (Acting Secretary of Defense) and the military top brass have effectively removed Trump as the Commander in Chief. What mechanisms could be used to do this though? Surely, whilst Trump is still C-in-C he could theoretically say to an aide "bring me the nuclear codes" and there is nothing , legally, that Pence or anyone could do to stop him?
|
|
|
Post by manchesterman on Jan 9, 2021 2:38:21 GMT
What do we think? This will almost certainly be an academic exercise, but which senators would be needed to impeach Trump? Without leadership support the only plausible Republican votes would appear to be Collins, Murkowski, Romney and Sasse. At a push maybe Toomey or (even longer shot) Grassley? I could conceive of enough GOP Senators being persuaded (after all its for a few days, not months, and he would of course be replaced by Pence, a proper Republican); however I think the problem would be getting enough GOP Reps to join in. For that reason, I dont see impeachment working; only 25th amendment could do it - otherwise we will just have to sit tight with fingers crossed till 20th January
|
|
|
Post by manchesterman on Jan 9, 2021 0:57:16 GMT
I think Richard just beat me to the punch.
|
|
|
Post by manchesterman on Jan 8, 2021 23:36:20 GMT
Why not post a thread about your suggestions for the political reorganisation of North America in the Alternate Political History page in the Psephology sub-forum?
|
|
|
Post by manchesterman on Jan 8, 2021 17:42:55 GMT
Trump has stated he will not attend the Biden inauguration. Oh the grand old dork called Trump He had ten thousand men He marched them up to Capitol Hill Then he ran away from them
And when they were up he was up And when they were down he was down And when they were only half way up He made plans to leave town
Trad, arrange Finso.
Fantastic! Do you mind if I share?
|
|
|
Post by manchesterman on Jan 8, 2021 17:40:48 GMT
|
|
|
Post by manchesterman on Jan 8, 2021 15:50:48 GMT
Oh dear. Seems likely at least some GOP politicians *will* be doing time... In fairness some of them were simply at the protest outside of the Capitol. My opinion on what should have happened to those who made it into the Capitol is surely well known by now but it is important we that we remember that many people attending the protest did not break any laws or do anything that warrants ruining their lives, careers, etc.Indeed, including my brother who left immediately after the speeches ended, as I commented on a few pages back
|
|
|
Post by manchesterman on Jan 8, 2021 15:49:03 GMT
|
|
|
Post by manchesterman on Jan 8, 2021 14:38:14 GMT
One reply on there says that "He honestly looks like a hostage reading a prepared script". That probably isnt a million miles from the truth!
|
|
|
Post by manchesterman on Jan 8, 2021 1:10:50 GMT
Better. What a pity he didnt say this 48 hours ago; 5 people who still be alive now if he had! Actually, not better, as far as I'm concerned. He spent months whipping up a frenzy, then literally held a rally telling them to march on the Capitol, said he would march with them but immediately slunk back to the White House. He failed to lift a finger to stop what was going on, and contrary to his claims here, appears to have refused to mobilise the DC National Guard until it was clear that other states were sending theirs in anyway. Now he calls them "heinous" and tries to walk away. Fucking weasel. Not only a liar, failed tyrant and crook but a coward with it. A traitor not only to his country but to the deluded fools he is hanging out to dry. If it means that he's scared for the sake of his own skin then: good. I hope he has cause. Well yes, but he could have doubled down and inflamed his base even more, and who knows what that may have led to over the coming days.
Also I think this is a tactic to prevent any moves towards 25th amendment/impeachment - any waiverers may now not choose to vote for that after his (outwardly) conciliatory tone.
As for the other comments you make about him: 100% agree. And if any doubt was needed that he has, all along, used people for his own ends then just dumped them as soon as they are no longer of use to him, then the last 24 hours have proved that beyond any doubt.
|
|
|
Post by manchesterman on Jan 8, 2021 0:30:29 GMT
Better. What a pity he didnt say this 48 hours ago; 5 people who still be alive now if he had!
|
|
|
Post by manchesterman on Jan 7, 2021 19:14:08 GMT
..better than getting thrown under it!
|
|
|
Post by manchesterman on Jan 7, 2021 19:09:11 GMT
I thought bringing Kersal into Bury South made sense due to the common Jewish communities there. Wigan is a pig's ear, I agree.
|
|
|
Post by manchesterman on Jan 7, 2021 18:51:02 GMT
That would actually be feasible Pete. Only about 100 electors differential so it would work. As with all these things, it's just a first draft (and it's not like they are going to take me up on my proposals) And dont call me Shirley
|
|
|
Post by manchesterman on Jan 7, 2021 18:46:24 GMT
Word is that Elaine Chao (aka Mrs Mitch McConnell) will resign as Transport Secretary later. Presumably this means the Cabinet isn't going down the 25th Amendment route? She has now done so
|
|