Foggy
Non-Aligned
Yn Ennill Yma
Posts: 6,135 
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Post by Foggy on Feb 27, 2017 23:06:50 GMT
Do you consider Bill English to be an unelected dictator? Do you accept that some bums will never be thrown out, even under STV? Obviously NZ is a democracy just less democratic than Ireland imo, we are even more so. Hmm, you're entitled to your opinion, I suppose, even when logic tells you otherwise. I do agree that there are a disheartening number of safe seats in Germany, but that's what happens when AMS appears out of nowhere (in the West in 1949 and the East in 1990), coming straight off years of totalitarian rule. It encourages the electorate to use their Erststimme in a rather unsophisticated way. It can still churn out surprise outcomes, though: just look at Teltow-Fläming III in Brandenburg in 2014. When additional members are grafted onto the system in a country with a tradition of both FPTP and more than two parties – as in NZ, Scotland and Wales – it still throws up interesting results in the single-member constituencies. However, we only have 20 or so years of evidence for the effects of that. |
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Foggy
Non-Aligned
Yn Ennill Yma
Posts: 6,135
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Post by Foggy on Feb 27, 2017 23:09:00 GMT
Personally I think that in the mid-1990s the government should've left the Welsh authorities well alone, which should inform you on my position on the matter. Perhaps just only making Cardiff (and possibly Swansea City, and Newport) unitary would've sufficed, but for the rest of the authorities, their rural nature makes them rather unsuited to administration by the unitary model, in my opinion. I favor favour giving independence to districts even if it is not cost effective, bar the highlands of Scotland and other remote areas you should not be governed by a council hall more than half an hour to an hour away imo. I think regional or county level government is unnecessary and more power should be given to councils to raise income taxes and work with nerby nearby councils on projects. An hour on foot? In the car? On a bus or train? By hovercraft?? |
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Terry Weldon
Lib Dem
Councilor, Waverley BC and Haslemere TC. Lifelong liberal, in S Africa and now UK
Posts: 307
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Post by Terry Weldon on Feb 27, 2017 23:13:03 GMT
What a strange example to pick. Would that be the Surrey South West that the Lib Dems came within a few hundred votes of winning in 2001? Enda Kenny has been safe in County Mayo for decades under STV, despite being in opposition nationally for most of that time. Bill English, the current Prime Minister of New Zealand, no longer has a constituency seat. He was elected to Parliament on a closed list. Should the Kiwis therefore be suspended from the Commonwealth for being "undemocratic"? If you look who the MP is you will see why I was so keen to refer to them as one of the bastards that needs throwing out  As a voter here in SW Surrey, I would agree. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Feb 27, 2017 23:15:06 GMT
I'd happily just import Germany's system, with 5% thresholds in a set of areas defined by the Boundary Commission. I.e. if you got 4% of the vote in Cheshire, you'd not be entitled to representation from there but if you got 5.1% in London you would from there. That isn't how it works in Germany though is it - it's based off a national 5% threshold so in Saxony for example you have Green seats though they got below 5% there but no Afd where they polled considerably higher. Perhaps you meant a modified version of the German system but it wasn;t clear. Personally I don't favour a threshold but if you avoid making the electorates too large you are going to have a de facto threshold of 5% or higher anyway |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Feb 27, 2017 23:18:02 GMT
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Feb 27, 2017 23:27:13 GMT
Typical ignorant shite from Stephen Bush. This seat has only existed since 1983 and has little relationship to the previous seat of that name which only included Gorton itself together with Denton and Audenshaw. Most of this seat was created from the old Manchester Ardwick (hence Kaufman following that area). Of course Ardwick was also Labour since 1935 but not much of the 1935 version of Ardwicks is actually in this seat. The closest predecessor to this seat prior to 1950 is Manchester Rusholme and that only went Labour in 1945 (and even then by only 10 votes). Obviously you know all this along with everyone else on this forum but someone should educate that dickhead from the New Statesman |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Feb 27, 2017 23:29:37 GMT
Oh and also as it now includes Whalley Range as well as Fallowfield, a fair chunk of this seat was in Moss Side before 1983 which was of course Conservative held until 1974
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 23:31:47 GMT
Getting my prediction of a lib dem gain in now.
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Post by timrollpickering on Feb 27, 2017 23:47:55 GMT
Is there any agreement that we should return to pre 1974 county boundaries outside London? Make Yorkshire Great Again! In those terms, I think Westmorland should be restored as a county (and separated from Cumberland), as should Huntingdonshire (its connections to Cambridgeshire are poor). Selby and Goole should be placed back within the West Riding (place them together as a unitary authority), and North Lincolnshire/NE Lincolnshire should be returned to Lincolnshire. Saddleworth, Barnoldswick, and Earby should be returned to Yorkshire where they belong (same with Abingdon, Wantage and Didcot being returned to Berkshire from Oxfordshire), and Southport should be returned to Lancashire CC's remit (it is too far from Merseyside to be properly a part of it). If you're respecting Yorkshire's Ridings, what about Lincolnshire's Parts? |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 23:48:55 GMT
Bus routes, former county boundaries, Spitting Image, voting systems and international Prime Ministers: this thread has ticked off all the VoteUK bingo card favourites by page 8 and the poor sod hasn't been buried yet.....
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Post by greenchristian on Feb 27, 2017 23:55:23 GMT
Bus routes, former county boundaries, Spitting Image, voting systems and international Prime Ministers: this thread has ticked off all the VoteUK bingo card favourites by page 8 and the poor sod hasn't been buried yet..... You lie. There hasn't been a single mention of trains so far... (Am I allowed to call Bingo on my own post?  ) |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 23:57:43 GMT
Bus routes, former county boundaries, Spitting Image, voting systems and international Prime Ministers: this thread has ticked off all the VoteUK bingo card favourites by page 8 and the poor sod hasn't been buried yet..... You lie. There hasn't been a single mention of trains so far... (Am I allowed to call Bingo on my own post? ) Real Ale! BINGO!!!! |
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Post by timrollpickering on Feb 28, 2017 0:00:47 GMT
I'm aware that the current MP is Jeremy Hunt, and I'm not fond of him either. I was pointing out that Surrey South West is far from the safest seat in the country, and was a marginal in the not too distant past. Do you consider Bill English to be an unelected dictator? Do you accept that some bums will never be thrown out, even under STV? stv gives loyal party voters to kick party leaders out of office in favor of a junior candidate from the same party, the possibility is there even if nobody has shown enda the door. That requires the party to offer alternative choice. Party nomination in Irish STV is such that usually parties will shore up their major players by limiting the nominations when they're on the back foot. |
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Post by timrollpickering on Feb 28, 2017 0:03:08 GMT
Bus routes, former county boundaries, Spitting Image, voting systems and international Prime Ministers: this thread has ticked off all the VoteUK bingo card favourites by page 8 and the poor sod hasn't been buried yet..... There hasn't been a vicious political row with a Liberal Democrat yet. |
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Post by philipchandler on Feb 28, 2017 0:25:55 GMT
I haven't replied to this thread yet, despite being a constituent, mainly because I don't have anything to say about Gerald Kaufman that cannot be said better by many people, people who actually knew him, and because there will be plenty of time later to discuss the by-election itself. But then somebody mentioned buses, so I've been drawn in.
When people talk about 'the busiest bus route in Europe', usually it is about the route along Oxford Road/Wilmslow Road rather than one single bus route. Along this rounte, as far as Withington, run the 42 (run by two companies, with two subtly different routes) the 43, the 143 and 41 (despite havign different numbers, now the same route just run by different companies) and the 142, which is probably the best approximation of the 'busiest route' that people talk about, but isn't that busy by itself, if that makes sense. I guess that the claim is that Oxford/Wilmslow Road has the highest frequency of buses going to the same destination, rather than one specific route. Either way, it is a dubious claim, but it certainly is a very frequently served route.
The 192 almost certainly is the busiest individual route in Manchester, because the same number is used for almost all buses that go to Stockport and it's simply a matter of where they terminate - not all carry on as far as Hazel Grove. I guess that it rivals the Wilmslow Road corridor, but doesn't get the claim. Also, all buses on the 192 are Stagecoach, whereas the Wilmslow Road corridor has competition between First and Stagecoach, so the 192 can be over twice the price for a single ticket. This might surpress demand a little.
The original point about people in the constituency relying on buses is certainly accurate. Almost none of this consituency is convienient for the tram, and the only railway station with a particularly high frequency is Levenshulme, Gorton has a half hourly frequency and Ryder Brow and Belle Vue less than that. For many people in the constituency the bus is the only option. Today I was sent a leaflet from Labour for the mayoral election, entirely focused on bus services, so it is seen to be an issue here (despite maybe having the busiest route in Europe).
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 14,774
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Post by J.G.Harston on Feb 28, 2017 1:32:39 GMT
Bus routes, former county boundaries, Spitting Image, voting systems and international Prime Ministers: this thread has ticked off all the VoteUK bingo card favourites by page 8 and the poor sod hasn't been buried yet..... You lie. There hasn't been a single mention of trains so far... (Am I allowed to call Bingo on my own post? ) If the Woodhead Line was re-opened I'm sure it would be a lot easier for campaigners from Sheffield to get over..... |
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Foggy
Non-Aligned
Yn Ennill Yma
Posts: 6,135
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Post by Foggy on Feb 28, 2017 1:40:15 GMT
Bus routes, former county boundaries, Spitting Image, voting systems and international Prime Ministers: this thread has ticked off all the VoteUK bingo card favourites by page 8 and the poor sod hasn't been buried yet..... You lie. There hasn't been a single mention of trains so far... . |
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 15,786
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Post by john07 on Feb 28, 2017 2:34:40 GMT
Bus routes, former county boundaries, Spitting Image, voting systems and international Prime Ministers: this thread has ticked off all the VoteUK bingo card favourites by page 8 and the poor sod hasn't been buried yet..... There has been no mention of Stockport pubs and Scottish Football. Until Now! |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Feb 28, 2017 7:05:51 GMT
I'd happily just import Germany's system, with 5% thresholds in a set of areas defined by the Boundary Commission. I.e. if you got 4% of the vote in Cheshire, you'd not be entitled to representation from there but if you got 5.1% in London you would from there. That isn't how it works in Germany though is it - it's based off a national 5% threshold so in Saxony for example you have Green seats though they got below 5% there but no Afd where they polled considerably higher. Perhaps you meant a modified version of the German system but it wasn;t clear. Personally I don't favour a threshold but if you avoid making the electorates too large you are going to have a de facto threshold of 5% or higher anyway Sorry, Pete, that was indeed me not making myself clear. I would indeed want a modification. That idea about the electorates not being too large would be good too. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2017 7:55:29 GMT
Bus routes, former county boundaries, Spitting Image, voting systems and international Prime Ministers: this thread has ticked off all the VoteUK bingo card favourites by page 8 and the poor sod hasn't been buried yet..... I thought Jewish burials were meant to be held within 24 hours of death? Among observant Jews funerals should be held as soon as possible, which is normally taken to mean within a day. However, Kaufman wasn't religious, so it may not be. |
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