Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 22:01:49 GMT
I'm not sure why there is the sense that an Asian candidate is effectively entitled to it. A large part of the seat is Irish Catholic country and I'd imagine they have a big say in the local Labour Party. Whilst Rusholme, Whalley Range and Longsight are very Asian, the councillors are a mix and the seat is not as heavily Asian as it often made out. Apropos of nothing, this is the seat in which I went to school. I'm not from Manchester and you obviously are, but I get the impression Irish Catholics in Manchester do not stick together, do not flood en masse to CLPs and do not necessarily back "the Irish candidate" in selections just on ethnicity/religion alone (perhaps because of numbers?). Whereas, in the Asian community:  "Go to the selection meeting and vote BLOGGS, Mr Recently-Joined Dressing-Gown Man. BLOGGS. Do not look around the poster, look into the poster, do not question the poster. Vote BLOGGS." As it happens, the (Muslim) Asian community do not always vote for the Asian candidate if he/she comes from a different denomination, historical village, mosque or country from them. Simplistic stereotypes don't always work. One of the large Irish-born Catholic community living around here is my little brother who will shortly be sat in the Dicken Green after work thanking the good Lord that he works evenings so won't have to put up with evening canvassers. |
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Post by greenchristian on Feb 27, 2017 22:02:47 GMT
Multi-member ceremonial county constituencies (CCC) with free list/panachage PR and biproportional apportionment. No cumulative voting though please. Delivers perfect PR with strong constituency links. London to be split into London (Kent), London (Essex), London (Surrey) and London (Middlesex). 'strong constituency links'!? Wow such big constituency areas would cause massive distance between mps and constituents. I was proposing stv constituencies with around 200,000 voters. There are over 1 million voters in some of those areas! Without looking up figures, I'd think that the West Midlands county would be over 3 million voters. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 22:04:18 GMT
'strong constituency links'!? Wow such big constituency areas would cause massive distance between mps and constituents. I was proposing stv constituencies with around 200,000 voters. There are over 1 million voters in some of those areas! Without looking up figures, I'd think that the West Midlands county would be over 3 million voters. West Midlands County? You've just put that in to cause stick.... |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 22:16:15 GMT
West Midlands County? You've just put that in to cause stick.... Is there any agreement that we should return to pre 1974 county boundaries outside London? Make Yorkshire Great Again! It certainly grates on me! |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Feb 27, 2017 22:18:51 GMT
192?
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Post by mrpastelito on Feb 27, 2017 22:18:53 GMT
West Midlands County? You've just put that in to cause stick.... Is there any agreement that we should return to pre 1974 county boundaries outside London? Make Yorkshire Great Again! I wouldn't object. West Midlands in particular is and looks like an inflamed appendix. |
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Post by No Offence Alan on Feb 27, 2017 22:19:42 GMT
'strong constituency links'!? Wow such big constituency areas would cause massive distance between mps and constituents. I was proposing stv constituencies with around 200,000 voters. There are over 1 million voters in some of those areas! People identify with their counties though. Not so much since the end of conscription to county-based regiments. |
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Post by Lord Twaddleford on Feb 27, 2017 22:22:36 GMT
West Midlands County? You've just put that in to cause stick.... Is there any agreement that we should return to pre 1974 county boundaries outside London? Make Yorkshire Great Again! Not in Wales, old Denbighshire was an absolute abomination. |
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neilm
Non-Aligned
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Post by neilm on Feb 27, 2017 22:23:12 GMT
A lot of Labour seats have been held 'since 1935', do we know if that was a good year for us? It was considerably better than 1931. It was also the year that Ramsay MacDonald ceased being Prime Minister. He's apparently something of a hate figure to many in the Labour Party. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 22:29:33 GMT
Stockport to Piccadilly bus route, through Levenshulme, where I was partly raised. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Feb 27, 2017 22:33:25 GMT
Stockport to Piccadilly bus route, through Levemshulme, where I was partly raised. Yes I know the 192 well - I was asking whether it was the route referred to earlier as the busiest in Europe, or whatever phrase was used. Before we got sidelined into electoral reform. Oh, and it's Hazel Grove to Piccadilly. |
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Feb 27, 2017 22:34:01 GMT
Good look 'kicking the bastards out' in Surrey South West. Make very seat a marginal, support STV What a strange example to pick. Would that be the Surrey South West that the Lib Dems came within a few hundred votes of winning in 2001? Enda Kenny has been safe in County Mayo for decades under STV, despite being in opposition nationally for most of that time. Bill English, the current Prime Minister of New Zealand, no longer has a constituency seat. He was elected to Parliament on a closed list. Should the Kiwis therefore be suspended from the Commonwealth for being "undemocratic"? |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Feb 27, 2017 22:35:06 GMT
Good look 'kicking the bastards out' in Surrey South West. Make very seat a marginal, support STV What a strange example to pick. Would that be the Surrey South West that the Lib Dems came within a few hundred votes of winning in 2001? Enda Kenny has been safe in County Mayo for decades under STV, despite being in opposition nationally for most of that time. Bill English, the current Prime Minister of New Zealand, no longer has a constituency seat. He was elected to Parliament on a closed list. Should the Kiwis therefore be suspended from the Commonwealth for being "undemocratic"? It'd help our chances of a medal in the Commonwealth Games Rugby 7s. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 22:43:03 GMT
Stockport to Piccadilly bus route, through Levemshulme, where I was partly raised. Yes I know the 192 well - I was asking whether it was the route referred to earlier as the busiest in Europe, or whatever phrase was used. Before we got sidelined into electoral reform. Oh, and it's Hazel Grove to Piccadilly. I know....I just had a bet with my mate that a Hazel Grover would be in like Flynn to correct me. |
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Post by greenhert on Feb 27, 2017 22:44:06 GMT
West Midlands County? You've just put that in to cause stick.... Is there any agreement that we should return to pre 1974 county boundaries outside London? Make Yorkshire Great Again! In those terms, I think Westmorland should be restored as a county (and separated from Cumberland), as should Huntingdonshire (its connections to Cambridgeshire are poor). Selby and Goole should be placed back within the West Riding (place them together as a unitary authority), and North Lincolnshire/NE Lincolnshire should be returned to Lincolnshire. Saddleworth, Barnoldswick, and Earby should be returned to Yorkshire where they belong (same with Abingdon, Wantage and Didcot being returned to Berkshire from Oxfordshire), and Southport should be returned to Lancashire CC's remit (it is too far from Merseyside to be properly a part of it). |
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Rural Radical
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Now living in a Labour held ward at Borough level for the first time in many years
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Post by Rural Radical on Feb 27, 2017 22:48:01 GMT
Not in Wales, old Denbighshire was an absolute abomination. wales probably better served by the preserved counties, surely its flintshire that is more od a problem? I would like to see Flintshire (detached) again |
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Feb 27, 2017 22:51:18 GMT
What a strange example to pick. Would that be the Surrey South West that the Lib Dems came within a few hundred votes of winning in 2001? If you look who the MP is you will see why I was so keen to refer to them as one of the bastards that needs throwing out  I'm aware that the current MP is Jeremy Hunt, and I'm not fond of him either. I was pointing out that Surrey South West is far from the safest seat in the country, and was a marginal in the not too distant past. Do you consider Bill English to be an unelected dictator? Do you accept that some bums will never be thrown out, even under STV? |
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danno
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Post by danno on Feb 27, 2017 22:53:24 GMT
William Hill betting odds on Manchester Gorton
Labour. 1\10
Lib Dem. 6\1
Green. 33\1
Ukip. 33\1
Con. 100\1
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Post by Lord Twaddleford on Feb 27, 2017 22:55:01 GMT
Not in Wales, old Denbighshire was an absolute abomination. wales probably better served by the preserved counties, surely its flintshire that is more od a problem? Personally I think that in the mid-1990s the government should've left the Welsh authorities well alone, which should inform you on my position on the matter. Perhaps just only making Cardiff (and possibly Swansea City, and Newport) unitary would've sufficed, but for the rest of the authorities, their rural nature makes them rather unsuited to administration by the unitary model, in my opinion. |
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Post by Lord Twaddleford on Feb 27, 2017 22:58:39 GMT
As for the two classes of MP arguement, I don't agree with that at all, really what the case is more than anything, is that our political culture is currently unused to dealing with PR systems After all, it was the Conservative leader in Wales who lost his seat because of two classes of AMs and a rule against standing in both classes... Definitely would prefer open lists. If you'll permit me a moment of mean-spirited indulgence, I rather considered that the highlight of the 2011 Assembly elections.  But anyway... I don't think being allowed to stand in the lists in addition to standing for a constituency would've saved Nick Bourne in 2011, as chances are he would've stood in Brecon & Radnorshire (as he had in 1999 & 2003), which was won by the Lib Dem Kirsty Williams. That said, it's possible he could've swung the seat into the Conservative column, what with him being a high profile candidate as party leader, but so was Kirsty Williams; either way I'd have the Lib Dems favoured on that one. The only other possibility in mind would've been to have him stand in Montgomeryshire, but that doesn't seem likely to me. What definitely would've saved him would've been to increase the number of list seats (by my calculations, for 2011 I have the Conservatives gaining the hypothetical 6th list seat for the Mid & West Wales region). |
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