Georg Ebner
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Roman romantic reactionary Catholic
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Post by Georg Ebner on Jan 22, 2017 14:40:54 GMT
Bismarck once famously quipped 'A Bavarian is half-way between an Austrian and a human.' That's often written, but proved is only, that it was said by TH.MOMMSEN, so rather not by his enemy v.BISMARCK. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 22, 2017 17:18:20 GMT
I know some such people. They aren't right in the head. You can either embrace your Austrian or German side, but don't sit on the fence in Bavarian purgatory limbo all your life!  Bismarck once famously quipped 'A Bavarian is half-way between an Austrian and a human.' Whereas Austrian friends of mine opined that Bavarians were Austrians who for some obscure reason believed they were Germans... Historically speaking Austria is a Bavarian spin-off  Am I right in thinking that the Nazi name for Austria, Ostmark, implied exactly that? |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 22, 2017 17:19:19 GMT
What no option for the CSU for those of us who would prefer to live in Bayern. I know some such people. They aren't right in the head. You can either embrace your Austrian or German side, but don't sit on the fence in Bavarian purgatory limbo all your life! Personally I'd live in Schleswig-Holstein or NRW and still be able to vote CSU. Alas... |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 22, 2017 17:20:36 GMT
Are there many differences between the CDU and CSU? Arguably the CSU are the closest to being the party of Rerum Novarum of any party in Europe. |
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Post by finsobruce on Jan 22, 2017 17:21:33 GMT
Bismarck once famously quipped 'A Bavarian is half-way between an Austrian and a human.' Whereas Austrian friends of mine opined that Bavarians were Austrians who for some obscure reason believed they were Germans... Historically speaking Austria is a Bavarian spin-off Am I right in thinking that the Nazi name for Austria, Ostmark, implied exactly that? Sort of....... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margraviate_of_Austria |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2017 17:37:19 GMT
Are there many differences between the CDU and CSU? Arguably the CSU are the closest to being the party of Rerum Novarum of any party in Europe. That is a rather charitable evaluation. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 22, 2017 17:45:51 GMT
Arguably the CSU are the closest to being the party of Rerum Novarum of any party in Europe. That is a rather charitable evaluation. The CSU are possibly best described as a catch-all party in a place where almost every political view to catch is of Catholic Bavarianist type. |
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Post by mrpastelito on Jan 22, 2017 19:29:44 GMT
That is a rather charitable evaluation. The CSU are possibly best described as a catch-all party in a place where almost every political view to catch is of Catholic Bavarianist type. For CSU, read FF. |
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Jan 23, 2017 2:27:15 GMT
I know some such people. They aren't right in the head. You can either embrace your Austrian or German side, but don't sit on the fence in Bavarian purgatory limbo all your life! Personally I'd live in Schleswig-Holstein or NRW and still be able to vote CSU. Alas... I could picture myself happily living in BaWü and voting for Kretschmann's Greens. Though since you mentioned Schleswig-Holstein – you could always live there and vote SSW!  |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 23, 2017 7:43:39 GMT
Oh God, the SSW. The original pork-barrel merchants.
Literally in fact, as lots of alleged Danish voters in S-H declared themselves to be so to get free bacon from the Danish government after the war.
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Post by markgoodair on Jan 23, 2017 8:06:18 GMT
Oh God, the SSW. The original pork-barrel merchants. Literally in fact, as lots of alleged Danish voters in S-H declared themselves to be so to get free bacon from the Danish government after the war. And for whom the 5% qualication does not apply. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2017 10:04:44 GMT
Oh God, the SSW. The original pork-barrel merchants. Literally in fact, as lots of alleged Danish voters in S-H declared themselves to be so to get free bacon from the Danish government after the war. That is simply not true. There was nothing "alleged" about the high Danish vote in Southern Sleswick in the post-war years, and as the ballot was secret it wasn't related to food supplies, but by a desire for unification with Denmark. The native population in Southern Sleswick was of overwhelmingly Danish descent in 1945 (apart from areas south of Sleswick city), the descendents of people who were Germanized during the 19th century (and in the central moorlands also later). There were always vestiges of an older, regional South Jutlandic identity (and in the center you had people identifying as Germans, but speaking a Danish dialect as late as the 30s) and a North Frisian on the west coast. When the Germans placed large group of refugees from the east in Sleswick it provoked a counter reaction ("if they are Germans, we are not"). The cultural and linguistic divide between a Sleswicker and an East Prussian was vast and the locals saw them as "Slavs", far more foreign than the Danish speaking North Sleswickers on the other side of the border. National identity is constructed against an "other", in this case an influx of an alien population made an indigenous population reconsider their nationality. The background for this was of course the collapse of Nazi-Germany, which was also a profound defeat for German culture (the adaption of which had historically been an active choice in this mixed area). Denmark had a Liberal PM 1945-47, who was personally in favor of unification, but couldn't get a majority behind it in parliament (there is little doubt that the border would have been moved south if Denmark had requested it, though the British government was unwilling to wait for a decision and wanted the border issue settled quickly). When he fell it became increasingly clear that Denmark wasn't going to push for a referendum. When reunification seized being a realistic option, the refugees started to integrate/assimilate, and post-war Germany stabilized after 1949 that caused a steady decline in the support for the Danish minority, which had peaked in 1948. That was a normalization, but you can not just disregard the nationality change in the post-war years as disingenous. It was unleashed by several profound shocks and the basis for it was a culturally mixed region where people could fall back on multiple ethnic and national traditions. Its an area with a fluid identity and had the border been moved south in 1946 (and the refugees expelled) there would likely have been a stable Danish public identity, but strong vestiges of German culture in peoples private identities. The Danish minority is mostly financed by the Danish state, and S-H has been rather penny pinching when it comes to allocating funds to their ethnic minorities (both the Danish and the Frisian), so if they are pork-barreling they haven't been that good at it (and the purpose of a minority party is of course always to secure funds for the minority). The 5% threshold was instigated because the minority gets more than 5% of the votes in Southern Sleswick. The British refused to make Southern Sleswick a separate land (as the Danish government wanted), and merged it with 100% German Holstein, so the threshold exemption is fair. # Sleswick was the English name for the duchy prior to c. 1800, and as its both much closer to the Danish Slesvig and more English I prefer it. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2017 10:10:52 GMT
Oh God, the SSW. The original pork-barrel merchants. Literally in fact, as lots of alleged Danish voters in S-H declared themselves to be so to get free bacon from the Danish government after the war. That is simply not true. There was nothing "alleged" about the high Danish vote in Southern Sleswick in the post-war years, and as the ballot was secret it wasn't related to food supplies, but by a desire for unification with Denmark. [...] That's very interesting. I did a little reading about the history of the region in the context of the notorious "Schleswig-Holstein Question" (as it is known here), and the later partition after WWI, but had not fully realised the impact of the refugee influx from 1945. |
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Georg Ebner
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Roman romantic reactionary Catholic
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Post by Georg Ebner on Jan 23, 2017 16:04:17 GMT
Österreich derives from "Ostarrichi" (mentioned first in a treaty from 976), what means "East-Reich". Few historians believe, that already the celtic "Noricum" meant the same, but that's unlikely.
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Georg Ebner
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Roman romantic reactionary Catholic
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Post by Georg Ebner on Jan 23, 2017 16:19:46 GMT
Oh God, the SSW. The original pork-barrel merchants. Literally in fact, as lots of alleged Danish voters in S-H declared themselves to be so to get free bacon from the Danish government after the war. That is simply not true. There was nothing "alleged" about the high Danish vote in Southern Sleswick in the post-war years, and as the ballot was secret it wasn't related to food supplies, but by a desire for unification with Denmark. The native population in Southern Sleswick was of overwhelmingly Danish descent in 1945 (apart from areas south of Sleswick city), the descendents of people who were Germanized during the 19th century (and in the central moorlands also later).  :
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2017 16:38:45 GMT
That is simply not true. There was nothing "alleged" about the high Danish vote in Southern Sleswick in the post-war years, and as the ballot was secret it wasn't related to food supplies, but by a desire for unification with Denmark. The native population in Southern Sleswick was of overwhelmingly Danish descent in 1945 (apart from areas south of Sleswick city), the descendents of people who were Germanized during the 19th century (and in the central moorlands also later). :
Completely irrelevant (not sure why you posted it). The sentence following the bolded one says "descendents of people who were Germanized during the 19th century" and your map describes the linguistic situation in 1905. |
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Georg Ebner
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Roman romantic reactionary Catholic
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Post by Georg Ebner on Jan 23, 2017 16:55:58 GMT
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Completely irrelevant (not sure why you posted it). The sentence following the bolded one says "descendents of people who were Germanized during the 19th century" and your map describes the linguistic situation in 1905. Come on! You think, that Danish fell from 100% to below 10% within 1 century? |
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Post by lennon on Jan 23, 2017 16:58:36 GMT
Any chance that the poll can be amended to include an 'Other' option? They've had some issues but the PiratenPartei is still fighting and active in most places across Germany.
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Jan 23, 2017 16:58:41 GMT
Here's a map for the referendum 1920:  |
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Jan 23, 2017 16:59:47 GMT
Any chance that the poll can be amended to include an 'Other' option? They've had some issues but the PiratenPartei is still fighting and active in most places across Germany. Doubt that. |
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