Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2017 15:46:34 GMT
The best way for Labour to address the Blair problem is to argue strongly in favour of him being charged and handed over for trial at The Hague.Many people outside the Labour Party - indeed beyond the centre left - would rejoice at such an outcome. There remains a strong sense that he has not received his just desserts. As someone who took nearly three years to read the entire transcripts of the 1945/46 Nuremberg trials, I have longed believed that he - with Bush - to have been more guilty of the indictment related to Planning for War than any of the Nazis charged or convicted there - with the possible exception of Ribbentrop. I am not referring to the other indictments concerning Crimes against Humanity - Treatment of Foreign workers - Treatment of Prisoners of War. Guilty of something thats not a crime. |
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Merseymike
Independent
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Post by Merseymike on Feb 17, 2017 16:03:19 GMT
Well, you need to understand he is a very unpopular person No, I don't, because it's not true. Most ordinary people don't have strong feelings either way. For them, he is a historical figure. He left office a decade ago. If they think about him at all, they think he did some good things and some bad things. What I do understand is that he is very unpopular among a substantial segment of Labour Party members. For them, it's all about Iraq, PFI, the failure of the last Labour government to achieve sufficient ideological purity. They have been frozen in time in the spring of 2003. This attitude is not restricted to the Corbynistas; it's common on the soft left too. And it's so harmful because it means that we trash our own record in government and do the Tories' work for them. And we prioritise vaguely defined 'principles' over competence and electability. Whereas if the wider public are unhappy about the Blair era, it's because they feel we let too many immigrants in or spent too much money. Then the best bet is for Blair to keep quiet. What positive contribution does he make by doing otherwise? And our record in government was pathetic, and I have no interest in either defending it or returning to the party (New Labour) which was in power then. Thats why I left that party in 2003. Having Blair popping up to try and guage whether there is enough momentum for him to launbch his centre party is fine by me - but we need to make it clear this has nothing to do with Labour. |
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Post by carlton43 on Feb 17, 2017 16:05:51 GMT
The best way for Labour to address the Blair problem is to argue strongly in favour of him being charged and handed over for trial at The Hague.Many people outside the Labour Party - indeed beyond the centre left - would rejoice at such an outcome. There remains a strong sense that he has not received his just desserts. As someone who took nearly three years to read the entire transcripts of the 1945/46 Nuremberg trials, I have longed believed that he - with Bush - to have been more guilty of the indictment related to Planning for War than any of the Nazis charged or convicted there - with the possible exception of Ribbentrop. I am not referring to the other indictments concerning Crimes against Humanity - Treatment of Foreign workers - Treatment of Prisoners of War. Guilty of something thats not a crime. Ahhh! Joe! Joe!! Those are the very worst forms of crimes to the new mentality and the new pseudo morality. The 'Who Shall We Blame Today' battalions and 'What Shall We Blame Them Of'? 'Shall We Change Our Minds Tomorrow'? 'Do We Have Minds'? 'Do Minds Matter'? 'I Don't Mind...........Do You'? |
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Post by justin124 on Feb 17, 2017 16:14:45 GMT
The best way for Labour to address the Blair problem is to argue strongly in favour of him being charged and handed over for trial at The Hague.Many people outside the Labour Party - indeed beyond the centre left - would rejoice at such an outcome. There remains a strong sense that he has not received his just desserts. As someone who took nearly three years to read the entire transcripts of the 1945/46 Nuremberg trials, I have longed believed that he - with Bush - to have been more guilty of the indictment related to Planning for War than any of the Nazis charged or convicted there - with the possible exception of Ribbentrop. I am not referring to the other indictments concerning Crimes against Humanity - Treatment of Foreign workers - Treatment of Prisoners of War. Guilty of something thats not a crime. The Nazi leaders pleaded 'Not Guilty'! Personally I would happily see Blair suffer the fate of Bin Laden - including being dumped at sea. |
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 16,043
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Post by Sibboleth on Feb 17, 2017 16:19:53 GMT
...anyway. Stoke!
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Terry Weldon
Lib Dem
Councilor, Waverley BC and Haslemere TC. Lifelong liberal, in S Africa and now UK
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Post by Terry Weldon on Feb 17, 2017 16:34:12 GMT
Interesting and damning assessment - from the horse's mouth! |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Feb 17, 2017 16:53:24 GMT
I hated Blair deeply, and probably unfairly. Loathing of him brought me into politics.
I think I've spent enough time fighting against the man to say that I feel that there is a modern-day tendency amongst parts of the Left to attack him, so as to show ones virtue.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 17, 2017 16:57:22 GMT
The presence of Tony Blair serves to remind the Corbynites that he won three general elections easily, one of them after the Iraq war, and led governments which immeasurably improved the lives of working people. Whereas Jeremy Corbyn is an amateur leader of the opposition currently polling in the low 20s and even his friends are abandoning him.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
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Post by The Bishop on Feb 17, 2017 17:00:52 GMT
Yawn, stop being so trite and simplistic. If you genuinely think that only "Corbynites" dislike Blair, then you are as delusional as the worst of them.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 17, 2017 17:02:43 GMT
The presence of Tony Blair is also good because it prompts his opponents to say things like "trite and simplistic".
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
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Post by The Bishop on Feb 17, 2017 17:05:43 GMT
He currently has worse approval ratings than Corbyn with YouGov.
I will repeat that, for the hard of understanding - WORSE. APPROVAL. RATINGS. THAN. CORBYN.
What's your "clever" answer to that?
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 17, 2017 17:14:11 GMT
Blair rarely speaks on topics of current political importance, not even to defend himself against ignorant attacks - which often come from the current leadership, who you might think might now be realising how difficult a job he was doing.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Feb 17, 2017 17:20:41 GMT
The presence of Tony Blair serves to remind the Corbynites that he won three general elections easily, one of them after the Iraq war, and led governments which immeasurably improved the lives of working people. Whereas Jeremy Corbyn is an amateur leader of the opposition currently polling in the low 20s and even his friends are abandoning him. But not some of his 'opponents' evidently  |
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 39,009
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Post by The Bishop on Feb 17, 2017 17:26:26 GMT
Jeez, I have explicitly said that Corbyn is crap today. What more do you want?  If the worst happens next week, I will be in little doubt about what needs to happen. That doesn't mean that blame can't be shared around. |
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Post by politicalmatrix on Feb 17, 2017 17:27:50 GMT
He currently has worse approval ratings than Corbyn with YouGov. I will repeat that, for the hard of understanding - WORSE. APPROVAL. RATINGS. THAN. CORBYN. What's your "clever" answer to that? But Blair isn't the leader of the Labour Party, Corbyn is. Blair's already done that and gave your lot 3 very big wins. |
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 39,009
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Post by The Bishop on Feb 17, 2017 17:28:59 GMT
Blair's electoral victories are barely more relevant to politics NOW than Attlee's or Wilson's.
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Post by iainbhx on Feb 17, 2017 17:34:29 GMT
Quite, I was there today, just heading back, will be there tomorrow. Barbara Fielding-Racists Freepost is hilarious, she's an INDEPENDANT. There is very little sign of Dr Eddie Nuttalls and his merry band out today (or I was told since about Tuesday). We had over 60 helpers out today. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Feb 17, 2017 17:45:02 GMT
Could you say that again? I don't think they were listening.  |
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 39,009
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Post by The Bishop on Feb 17, 2017 17:45:47 GMT
I hated Blair deeply, and probably unfairly. Loathing of him brought me into politics. I think I've spent enough time fighting against the man to say that I feel that there is a modern-day tendency amongst parts of the Left to attack him, so as to show ones virtue. Despite my annoyance with him (today and more generally) I take no pleasure in how things have turned out. It is the stuff of genuine tragedy. Less than two decades ago, he really did have it all...... |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2017 17:47:20 GMT
Quite, I was there today, just heading back, will be there tomorrow. Barbara Fielding-Racists Freepost is hilarious, she's an INDEPENDANT. There is very little sign of Dr Eddie Nuttalls and his merry band out today (or I was told since about Tuesday). We had over 60 helpers out today. Uploading Barbara Fruitloop-Cuckoo leaflet to the forum would be a great service |
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