Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2016 20:14:51 GMT
Before WWI Adolf Hitler's half brother Alois lived in Liverpool. Alois's Irish wife, Bridget, later claimed in a book that Adolf had lived with them for a short time. If Adolf had actually lived in Liverpool how would this have changed the course of world history? Would he have been the same mesmeric orator he later became? |
|
|
|
Post by finsobruce on Nov 19, 2016 20:49:27 GMT
Before WWI Adolf Hitler's half brother Alois lived in Liverpool. Alois's Irish wife, Bridget, later claimed in a book that Adolf had lived with them for a short time. If Adolf had actually lived in Liverpool how would this have changed the course of world history? Would he have been the same mesmeric orator he later became? I can recommend Beryl Bainbridge's novel "Young Adolf" which fictionalises this scenario. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2016 20:50:00 GMT
Before WWI Adolf Hitler's half brother Alois lived in Liverpool. Alois's Irish wife, Bridget, later claimed in a book that Adolf had lived with them for a short time. If Adolf had actually lived in Liverpool how would this have changed the course of world history? Would he have been the same mesmeric orator he later became? Hard to be in scouse. |
|
|
|
Post by carlton43 on Nov 19, 2016 21:11:53 GMT
Before WWI Adolf Hitler's half brother Alois lived in Liverpool. Alois's Irish wife, Bridget, later claimed in a book that Adolf had lived with them for a short time. If Adolf had actually lived in Liverpool how would this have changed the course of world history? Would he have been the same mesmeric orator he later became? No effect at all on anything. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2016 21:46:15 GMT
Before WWI Adolf Hitler's half brother Alois lived in Liverpool. Alois's Irish wife, Bridget, later claimed in a book that Adolf had lived with them for a short time. If Adolf had actually lived in Liverpool how would this have changed the course of world history? Would he have been the same mesmeric orator he later became? No effect at all on anything. I think Mein Kampf may have had an extra chapter or two... |
|
|
|
Post by carlton43 on Nov 19, 2016 22:25:48 GMT
No effect at all on anything. I think Mein Kampf may have had an extra chapter or two... If it is suggested he had a period here with family for something of the order 3months-18months I don't see it having much effect or adding more than a sentence or two to the book. Why would it? If it avoided pivotal meetings, riots, or the gaol time, then it would make that difference. But generally this a very fruitless what if? |
|
|
|
Post by finsobruce on Nov 19, 2016 22:40:51 GMT
No effect at all on anything. I think Mein Kampf may have had an extra chapter or two... Chapter 6 : The Liverpool years My struggle to get on a tram to see the Merseyside derby ended in failure . I had to go and watch New Brighton Tower reserves instead. Never will i be defeated like this again. |
|
|
|
Post by carlton43 on Nov 20, 2016 0:54:10 GMT
A large part of his motivation was righteous self pity. So, it is true, he did go there then? |
|
Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 12,005
|
Post by Khunanup on Nov 20, 2016 2:00:30 GMT
Before WWI Adolf Hitler's half brother Alois lived in Liverpool. Alois's Irish wife, Bridget, later claimed in a book that Adolf had lived with them for a short time. If Adolf had actually lived in Liverpool how would this have changed the course of world history? Would he have been the same mesmeric orator he later became? Hard to be in scouse. Erm, and I write this in Old Swan in Liverpool where I'm visiting this weekend, there is that little known orator William Gladstone who hails from this fair city. I'm not sure if you know of him in Denmark. Oh and I did pop by his birthplace while I was at it, hadn't done that for a while when I arrived on Friday evening. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2016 2:17:41 GMT
Erm, and I write this in Old Swan in Liverpool where I'm visiting this weekend, there is that little known orator William Gladstone who hails from this fair city. I'm not sure if you know of him in Denmark. Oh and I did pop by his birthplace while I was at it, hadn't done that for a while when I arrived on Friday evening. It was a joke. Yes, I know about Gladstone (I have read a lot of Irish history). Whether he spoke a more generic Lancastrian influenced by his education or had a more distinct "Liverpudlian" accent is up for debate, but the Liverpudlian back then did not sound like modern scouse, which developed in the second half of the 19th century (influenced by Welsh and Irish immigrants). So Gladstone didn't speak scouse. Scouse is derived from lobscouse, which is an English mispronunciation of the Scandinavian dish labskovs/lapskojs, so there is a Nordic connection. |
|
Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 12,005
|
Post by Khunanup on Nov 20, 2016 2:31:48 GMT
Erm, and I write this in Old Swan in Liverpool where I'm visiting this weekend, there is that little known orator William Gladstone who hails from this fair city. I'm not sure if you know of him in Denmark. Oh and I did pop by his birthplace while I was at it, hadn't done that for a while when I arrived on Friday evening. It was a joke. Yes, I know about Gladstone (I have read a lot of Irish history). Whether he spoke a more generic Lancastrian influenced by his education or had a more distinct "Liverpudlian" accent is up for debate, but the Liverpudlian back then did not sound like modern scouse, which developed in the second half of the 19th century (influenced by Welsh and Irish immigrants). So Gladstone didn't speak scouse. Scouse is derived from lobscouse, which is an English mispronunciation of the Scandinavian dish labskovs/lapskojs, so there is a Nordic connection. I'm from Merseyside Odo. |
|
|
|
Post by carlton43 on Nov 20, 2016 2:42:28 GMT
Was it in 'Springtime'?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2016 8:25:38 GMT
Erm, and I write this in Old Swan in Liverpool where I'm visiting this weekend, there is that little known orator William Gladstone who hails from this fair city. I'm not sure if you know of him in Denmark. Oh and I did pop by his birthplace while I was at it, hadn't done that for a while when I arrived on Friday evening. It was a joke. Yes, I know about Gladstone (I have read a lot of Irish history). Whether he spoke a more generic Lancastrian influenced by his education or had a more distinct "Liverpudlian" accent is up for debate, but the Liverpudlian back then did not sound like modern scouse, which developed in the second half of the 19th century (influenced by Welsh and Irish immigrants). So Gladstone didn't speak scouse. Scouse is derived from lobscouse, which is an English mispronunciation of the Scandinavian dish labskovs/lapskojs, so there is a Nordic connection. There is fact a recording of Gladstone's voice made on a Wax cylinder. The recording (see link) is quite difficult to listen to but you can just make out the accent.
www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwii1_Sc9LbQAhWHIsAKHZZMBhoQFgglMAM&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DU6-2eZwUZKk&usg=AFQjCNH3ce7-FaBnDNU5iT6NB95WKyVy-Q&sig2=4rblHhAIBWcJpsJ_46GbRA&bvm=bv.139250283,d.d24
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2016 8:31:40 GMT
I think Mein Kampf may have had an extra chapter or two... If it is suggested he had a period here with family for something of the order 3months-18months I don't see it having much effect or adding more than a sentence or two to the book. Why would it? If it avoided pivotal meetings, riots, or the gaol time, then it would make that difference. But generally this a very fruitless what if? I think Gerard Houllier the ex-Liverpool manager picked up a bit of an accent during his short time at the club, so it is quite possible that Adolf had he stayed a year or two could have mastered some basic scouse. Certainly a conversation with Chamberlain during the Munich negotiations over Czechoslovakia, could have been a bit more lively in a Scouse-German accent. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2016 9:02:58 GMT
A large part of his motivation was righteous self pity. So, it is true, he did go there then? The story is based entirely on the memoirs of Hitler's sister-in-law Bridget. These contain numerous discrepancies, and the suspicion has been voiced that that they were drafted during the 1930s to cash in on Hitler's notoriety. Historian Ian Kershaw has described them as a work of fiction. |
|
|
|
Post by Arthur Figgis on Nov 20, 2016 10:41:50 GMT
If it is suggested he had a period here with family for something of the order 3months-18months I don't see it having much effect or adding more than a sentence or two to the book. Why would it? If it avoided pivotal meetings, riots, or the gaol time, then it would make that difference. But generally this a very fruitless what if? I think Gerard Houllier the ex-Liverpool manager picked up a bit of an accent during his short time at the club, so it is quite possible that Adolf had he stayed a year or two could have mastered some basic scouse. Certainly a conversation with Chamberlain during the Munich negotiations over Czechoslovakia, could have been a bit more lively in a Scouse-German accent. Jan Molby's accent was fantastic! |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2016 10:45:50 GMT
So, it is true, he did go there then? The story is based entirely on the memoirs of Hitler's sister-in-law Bridget. These contain numerous discrepancies, and the suspicion has been voiced that that they were drafted during the 1930s to cash in on Hitler's notoriety. Historian Ian Kershaw has described them as a work of fiction. I think Carlton is joking. I agree with Ian Kershaw there is no evidence, but the thread is imagining what would have happened if it had been true. Hitler's stay in Vienna left him with a hatred of Jews and non-Germans, would therefore a stay in Liverpool have left him with a hatred of Irish people and scousers? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2016 11:08:03 GMT
It would he left him with a hatred of taxpayers. Funnily enough that is not so far from reality. When researchers looked into his tax records it became clear that he wasn't paying taxes on his income from Mein Kampf and other sources. But I guess if you are the undisputed leader with no democratic opposition you can safely ignore the taxman (or shut them up in a concentration camp). So not just a mass murderer but a tax dodger as well 
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2016 11:37:50 GMT
The story is based entirely on the memoirs of Hitler's sister-in-law Bridget. These contain numerous discrepancies, and the suspicion has been voiced that that they were drafted during the 1930s to cash in on Hitler's notoriety. Historian Ian Kershaw has described them as a work of fiction. I think Carlton is joking. I agree with Ian Kershaw there is no evidence, but the thread is imagining what would have happened if it had been true. Hitler's stay in Vienna left him with a hatred of Jews and non-Germans, would therefore a stay in Liverpool have left him with a hatred of Irish people and scousers? I didn't read the whole thread, I must confess - I haven't been around much over the last few days. Interesting idea. Hitler did meet his half-Irish nephew William, who lived in Germany for a while after 1933, and tried to profit from his uncle's rise to power. William later left Germany, and moved to attempting to blackmail him instead. Many fabricated stories which regularly resurface in relation to Adolf Hitler actually originated with William and his mother Bridget. It would probably have been bad news for the Irish if Hitler had based his view of them on these two. Actually, the Nazis don't seem to have taken a very close interest in Ireland. In terms of Nazi racial theory (which, of course, was very much a matter of whatever the Nazis found convenient at any given moment), the Irish were a "mixture of Nordic and Celtic elements", which ought to have placed them relatively high in the European hierarchy. They made half-hearted attempts to exploit Irish nationalist resentment of Britain, but clearly did not see this as a key objective. Both of Ireland's major political parties were, to some degree, influenced by Fascism, and Fine Gael was briefly led by the ridiculous General Eoin O'Duffy. Link is to a photo in the Irish Examiner archive showing Mrs E O'Neill taking the salute from Blueshirts in Kinsale in December 1933. The view is to the south along The Mall, toward my grand uncle's house on Compass Hill. |
|
|
|
Post by Adam in Stroud on Nov 20, 2016 11:43:43 GMT
I think he'd have had a bigger moustache.
|
|
