Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2016 19:08:27 GMT
But maybe this result can stop the silly conflation of Remain/Guardian/liberal views with Labour/The Left? Aye. Labour has nowt to do wi t'Guardian. Tis all whippets, rugby league and coal miners. Folk have all wrong idea. |
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
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Post by The Bishop on Dec 2, 2016 19:35:45 GMT
Not everybody who reads the Graun supports Labour, and it is a certainty that not all its contributors do.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2016 19:47:40 GMT
I think so voted for 'making things the way they used to be', which simply isn't going to happen - its an impossibility Let me make this clear, I am NOT advocating repatriation. However, during my adult life I have lived in two places where this has happened within (just) living memory (Thessaloniki, in Greece, and Szczecin, in Poland). I would also point to the examples of the likes of Algeria and Zimbabwe. I suppose, being British, we are too 'civilised' for this kind of thing. However, I don't see repatriation as an 'impossibility' in France, Netherlands and Austria in the medium to long term. I'm always a bit weary of people claiming they or theirs are to civilised to do something they are quite ready to assume others will do. What makes you superior? For some reason you seem to assume that Pied Piper Wilders will have any influence after the Dutch march 2017 General election. As long as he fails to win 76 seats in parliament, it's not going to happen as he will find no other party prepared to go in to coalition with him. Also, for some reason in the last couple of elections the polls overestimated his support. He was expected to 'win' the European election, in the sense that the PVV's nummer of Seats would increase and would end up the biggest party. In the end, they lost a Seat and ended third. In the local elections his party stood in only two councils and unexpectedly lost Seats instemde of gaining them. |
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Post by iainbhx on Dec 2, 2016 20:12:06 GMT
What a load of carp! Decimal points, too ... Wasn't that far off though was it  |
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Post by iainbhx on Dec 2, 2016 20:15:14 GMT
Regarding the Labour membership/vote thing, not sure why anyone is surprised. There's very little correlation between the size of a particular CLP and the propensity of local residents to vote Labour and never has been. There's a partial link between Labour strength at like a regional level and CLP membership but not at any lower level of geography (and the difference gets more extreme still when we at branch memberships etc). Richmond has had a big CLP since ever and has yet been just about the worst part of London for Labour since the early 70s. Isn't Seumas Milne a member of Richmond Park CLP? I'm pretty sure Lord Attenborough was as well. Shameless is indeed. As with Cameron's house in Witney, the Shameless delivery route was coveted for petty reasons. |
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spqr
Non-Aligned
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Post by spqr on Dec 2, 2016 20:27:27 GMT
Isn't Seumas Milne a member of Richmond Park CLP? I'm pretty sure Lord Attenborough was as well. Shameless is indeed. As with Cameron's house in Witney, the Shameless delivery route was coveted for petty reasons. All part of the fun. As long as you didn't push dog turds through his letterbox instead... |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2016 20:38:28 GMT
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Post by Merseymike on Dec 2, 2016 20:40:47 GMT
Regarding the Labour membership/vote thing, not sure why anyone is surprised. There's very little correlation between the size of a particular CLP and the propensity of local residents to vote Labour and never has been. There's a partial link between Labour strength at like a regional level and CLP membership but not at any lower level of geography (and the difference gets more extreme still when we at branch memberships etc). Richmond has had a big CLP since ever and has yet been just about the worst part of London for Labour since the early 70s. Very true - I always remember Maidenhead had a surprisingly large local party given they aren't able to elect a single councillor |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2016 20:41:38 GMT
Im looking at this the positive way. Goldsmith lost. He deserved to lose. Even if the not nots didnt deserve to win. She will lose in 2020. Like she was going to lose yesterday? Bet you a tenner. Loser pays into charity of choice of winner. |
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Post by andrew111 on Dec 2, 2016 20:46:24 GMT
This is less clever than you think it is. It seems to consist of the interviewer repeating the same smartarsed comment about a "second by-election" over and over again - not even an especially smart one, as the new MP will indeed need to seek renewal of her mandate in 2020. Agreed. The interviewer starts off with a very smarmy attitude and so it's obvious from the start that the entire interview is just a game of trickery and isnt serious. Not only that, but the interview then runs with an obvious lie: "Every single leading member of the Remain campaign said a vote to leave the EU is a vote to leave the single market", which, yes, Olney should have called out as a barefaced lie there and then but didn't. I thought the funniest thing was when Hartley Brewer realised she had overstepped the mark she went off on this "I don't hate Lib Dems" monologue! I must say I am getting a bit sick of this "asking for another vote is undemocratic" rubbish! Seeking to fossilise a vote taken on one day in history because you narrowly got the result you want is what is undemocratic! |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2016 21:10:13 GMT
Let me make this clear, I am NOT advocating repatriation. However, during my adult life I have lived in two places where this has happened within (just) living memory (Thessaloniki, in Greece, and Szczecin, in Poland). I would also point to the examples of the likes of Algeria and Zimbabwe. I suppose, being British, we are too 'civilised' for this kind of thing. However, I don't see repatriation as an 'impossibility' in France, Netherlands and Austria in the medium to long term. I'm always a bit weary of people claiming they or theirs are to civilised to do something they are quite ready to assume others will do. What makes you superior? For some reason you seem to assume that Pied Piper Wilders will have any influence after the Dutch march 2017 General election. As long as he fails to win 76 seats in parliament, it's not going to happen as he will find no other party prepared to go in to coalition with him. Also, for some reason in the last couple of elections the polls overestimated his support. He was expected to 'win' the European election, in the sense that the PVV's nummer of Seats would increase and would end up the biggest party. In the end, they lost a Seat and ended third. In the local elections his party stood in only two councils and unexpectedly lost Seats instemde of gaining them. What makes us 'superior'? Evidence. There has been all kinds of ethnic cleansing on the continent of Europe, even during the twentieth century, but none at all on the island of Britain since the Middle Ages. I have no idea how Wilders will do in 2017 as I am neither a soothsayer nor a fortune teller. I'm only saying that this is 'possible'. Much would depend on whether serious Islamist terrorist attacks occur. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2016 21:18:42 GMT
"There has been all kinds of ethnic cleansing on the continent of Europe, even during the twentieth century....."
And with this sentence, let us all just step back from the slippery slope we found ourselves skating towards some months ago.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Dec 2, 2016 21:22:33 GMT
Agreed. The interviewer starts off with a very smarmy attitude and so it's obvious from the start that the entire interview is just a game of trickery and isnt serious. Not only that, but the interview then runs with an obvious lie: "Every single leading member of the Remain campaign said a vote to leave the EU is a vote to leave the single market", which, yes, Olney should have called out as a barefaced lie there and then but didn't. I thought the funniest thing was when Hartley Brewer realised she had overstepped the mark she went off on this "I don't hate Lib Dems" monologue! I must say I am getting a bit sick of this "asking for another vote is undemocratic" rubbish! Seeking to fossilise a vote taken on one day in history because you narrowly got the result you want is what is undemocratic! Thank you for summarising eloquently the point I've been trying to form into an eloquent summation. |
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Post by akmd on Dec 2, 2016 21:39:28 GMT
I'm guessing that Olney carried Canbury, Ham, Petersham & Richmond Riverside, Kew, Mortlake & Barnes Common and North Richmond while Goldsmith won every other ward?
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 12,013
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Post by Khunanup on Dec 2, 2016 21:40:25 GMT
Like she was going to lose yesterday? Bet you a tenner. Loser pays into charity of choice of winner. No, no Joe, all wrong. The point is about you being adamant that we wouldn't win this by-election and you haven't taken it on the chin or stated specific mitigation. Olney will win in 2020, I don't need to put money on it to be confident. |
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Post by AdminSTB on Dec 2, 2016 21:41:45 GMT
Im looking at this the positive way. Goldsmith lost. He deserved to lose. Even if the not nots didnt deserve to win. She will lose in 2020. Like she was going to lose yesterday? I thought a Lib Dem gain was a distinct possibility, given the history of this seat. But it is worth bearing in mind the unusual circumstances of this by-election - had it been caused by the death of the incumbent, rather than the incumbent's nincompoopismaticism, it would almost certainly have been a Conservative hold. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Dec 2, 2016 21:42:46 GMT
I don't know who will win in 2020.
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Post by jerryarkansas on Dec 2, 2016 21:54:26 GMT
I must say I am getting a bit sick of this "asking for another vote is undemocratic" rubbish! Seeking to fossilise a vote taken on one day in history because you narrowly got the result you want is what is undemocratic! Of course, it is 'undemocratic'. People voted to leave, and that is the end of the matter. The government must implement the will of the people as they said they would. The people in Richmond Park voted to stay. Should she, the elected Representative of them not keep up with the views that her constituents have and do hold? Hypocritical to ask her not too. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2016 22:10:59 GMT
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Post by curiousliberal on Dec 2, 2016 22:18:07 GMT
Like she was going to lose yesterday? I thought a Lib Dem gain was a distinct possibility, given the history of this seat. But it is worth bearing in mind the unusual circumstances of this by-election - had it been caused by the death of the incumbent, rather than the incumbent's nincompoopismaticism, it would almost certainly have been a Conservative hold. In that case, the Conservatives could have put up a pro-Remain candidate, which would no doubt have helped. |
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