Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2016 22:33:12 GMT
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Post by Andrew_S on Dec 2, 2016 23:04:51 GMT
I think some of the Labour supporters crowing about this ought to consider that any Lib Dem revival based being anti-Brexit is likely to eat into their support as much, or more than, any other party. There's a serious risk of Labour facing a pincer movement with UKIP taking support from one part of the traditional Labour coalition and the Lib Dems now in a position to take from another (essentially that part which they nabbed for a while from 2003-2010) |
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
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Post by Sibboleth on Dec 3, 2016 0:09:13 GMT
I am quietly confident that the Labour Party has a vastly brighter future than The Times.
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Post by slicesofjim on Dec 3, 2016 1:05:16 GMT
I think some of the Labour supporters crowing about this ought to consider that any Lib Dem revival based being anti-Brexit is likely to eat into their support as much, or more than, any other party. There's a serious risk of Labour facing a pincer movement with UKIP taking support from one part of the traditional Labour coalition and the Lib Dems now in a position to take from another (essentially that part which they nabbed for a while from 2003-2010) Ah, the sage of Streatham offers us one of his sermons from the mount. You know, unlike the Hillary Clinton campaign, which was defeated by complacency, the biggest danger Labour face at the moment is the presumed threat of complacency, and the 'medicine' offered in response by quacks like Umunna. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2016 1:41:14 GMT
I am quietly confident that the Labour Party has a vastly brighter future than The Times. Maybe so, but as you seem to live entirely in your own bubble, your opinion doesn't really count for that much. No party has a divine right to exist, as we have seen with Labour north of the border. To an outside observer, Labour appears to have entirely lost its coherence, with a leadership and membership at odds with both its voters and party hierarchy. Labour has little to offer Europhiles who will drift to the Liberals. Neither has it much to offer its traditional Working Class supporters, for whom UKIP are far more in tune with their values. Labour, however, still has plenty to offer ethnic minorities and SJWs, and will therefore continue to win seats in the inner-cities, particularly areas with a large (and growing) Muslim demographic. |
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spqr
Non-Aligned
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Post by spqr on Dec 3, 2016 1:41:45 GMT
Ah, the sage of Streatham offers us one of his sermons from the mount. You know, unlike the Hillary Clinton campaign, which was defeated by complacency, the biggest danger Labour face at the moment is the presumed threat of complacency, and the 'medicine' offered in response by quacks like Umunna. Yes. Since the 2015 General Election hardly a day has passed by without dire warnings from 'senior Labour figures' about the state of the party. Contrary to what some of the anti-Labour posters on this forum seem to assume, the apparent decline of the party's appeal to 'traditional' working-class voters in particular is now a big concern (not that this is actually new, as anybody who read Decline of Working Class Politics by Barry Hindess back in the 1970s would tell you), with a steady-build up of blog posts and editorials on Labour-friendly websites and publications stating that something must be done. The problem is that, although identifying risks and problems may well be a grown-up, necessary thing to do, after a while the sheer weight of such opinion begins to look like a collective loss of self-confidence. This is not a good look, to put it bluntly. |
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Post by AdminSTB on Dec 3, 2016 9:24:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2016 10:12:35 GMT
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
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Post by The Bishop on Dec 3, 2016 10:47:35 GMT
Ah, the sage of Streatham offers us one of his sermons from the mount. You know, unlike the Hillary Clinton campaign, which was defeated by complacency, the biggest danger Labour face at the moment is the presumed threat of complacency, and the 'medicine' offered in response by quacks like Umunna. Yes. Since the 2015 General Election hardly a day has passed by without dire warnings from 'senior Labour figures' about the state of the party. Contrary to what some of the anti-Labour posters on this forum seem to assume, the apparent decline of the party's appeal to 'traditional' working-class voters in particular is now a big concern (not that this is actually new, as anybody who read Decline of Working Class Politics by Barry Hindess back in the 1970s would tell you), with a steady-build up of blog posts and editorials on Labour-friendly websites and publications stating that something must be done. The problem is that, although identifying risks and problems may well be a grown-up, necessary thing to do, after a while the sheer weight of such opinion begins to look like a collective loss of self-confidence. This is not a good look, to put it bluntly. And the worst thing is that some don't really believe it, but are simply pursuing their own sectarian agendas in pushing such a line. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2016 10:58:34 GMT
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Post by carlton43 on Dec 3, 2016 12:00:22 GMT
It certainly is Dok. Amazingly it improves both of them a lot. |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Dec 3, 2016 17:17:16 GMT
Agreed. The interviewer starts off with a very smarmy attitude and so it's obvious from the start that the entire interview is just a game of trickery and isnt serious. Not only that, but the interview then runs with an obvious lie: "Every single leading member of the Remain campaign said a vote to leave the EU is a vote to leave the single market", which, yes, Olney should have called out as a barefaced lie there and then but didn't. I thought the funniest thing was when Hartley Brewer realised she had overstepped the mark she went off on this "I don't hate Lib Dems" monologue! I must say I am getting a bit sick of this "asking for another vote is undemocratic" rubbish! Seeking to fossilise a vote taken on one day in history because you narrowly got the result you want is what is undemocratic! If it's good enough for the Muslim Brotherhood, I don't see why it's any surprise that the Leave campaign would take the same view. |
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Dec 3, 2016 17:46:48 GMT
This is less clever than you think it is. It seems to consist of the interviewer repeating the same smartarsed comment about a "second by-election" over and over again - not even an especially smart one, as the new MP will indeed need to seek renewal of her mandate in 2020. Agreed. The interviewer starts off with a very smarmy attitude and so it's obvious from the start that the entire interview is just a game of trickery and isnt serious. Not only that, but the interview then runs with an obvious lie: "Every single leading member of the Remain campaign said a vote to leave the EU is a vote to leave the single market", which, yes, Olney should have called out as a barefaced lie there and then but didn't. Since I don't go near TalkRadio, I didn't pick up on this at the time, but the above two posts are spot on as to the correct answers to this line of questioning. I'm pretty disappointed that Olney did not seem able to make them. I can only hope that it is down to lack of sleep and not being a professional politician, which is a Good Thing (I hope) |
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Post by tonygreaves on Dec 3, 2016 19:58:02 GMT
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Post by akmd on Dec 3, 2016 20:46:20 GMT
It certainly is. Thank you very much for posting this. Not surprised to see my local area (SW London) feature prominently in those lists. I am, however, surprised to see 2 of the Lewisham seats and Dulwich and West Norwood on the second list but not Vauxhall or Streatham. I'd have thought both of those would have pretty high numbers of young professionals as part of their demographics. |
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Rural Radical
Labour
Now living in a Labour held ward at Borough level for the first time in many years
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Post by Rural Radical on Dec 3, 2016 21:16:29 GMT
Interesting statistic for Corbynistas: That doesn't surprise me. In fact I did suggest that the size of the membership could exceed the Labour vote. Maybe they were too busy on Twitter and Facebook to vote 😉 |
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Post by Andrew_S on Dec 3, 2016 22:17:19 GMT
It certainly is. Thank you very much for posting this. Not surprised to see my local area (SW London) feature prominently in those lists. I am, however, surprised to see 2 of the Lewisham seats and Dulwich and West Norwood on the second list but not Vauxhall or Streatham. I'd have thought both of those would have pretty high numbers of young professionals as part of their demographics. Yes, that does rather make one question the categories used. Very interesting article nonetheless. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2016 10:44:45 GMT
The last word?
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Post by evergreenadam on Dec 4, 2016 11:06:34 GMT
It certainly is. Thank you very much for posting this.
Not surprised to see my local area (SW London) feature prominently in those lists. I am, however, surprised to see 2 of the Lewisham seats and Dulwich and West Norwood on the second list but not Vauxhall or Streatham. I'd have thought both of those would have pretty high numbers of young professionals as part of their demographics. There is now a critical mass of centre-left middle class professionals in that part of SE London who have been priced out of inner and outer SW London, in addition to the pre-existing traditional middle class areas of Dulwich Village and West Dulwich. The epicentre is the now gentrified Lordship Lane and the until recently 'reasonably' priced period housing in East Dulwich. Now that house prices have risen through the stratosphere and the East London Line has been extended the young professionals have spread further out into the adjacent areas of Forest Hill, Crofton Park, Honor Oak, Peckham Rye and Bellenden Village where there is plentiful period housing and gentrification is well underway. In time it has potential to become the south east London version of the Muswell Hill, Crouch End, Hornsey belt. In contrast Streatham has struggled to recover its 1950s heyday, the rail services are not as frequent as from Forest Hill or Peckham Rye and the traffic dominated High Road is not conducive to creating a 'villagey' hub with small businesses that attract the middle classes. |
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Post by carlton43 on Dec 4, 2016 12:44:05 GMT
So Tofu-Latte Land was minding its pocket in 2015 and gave Zac a massive majority; then protected its tender EU feelings in the Referendum by 72%; and then discarded a tosser for a more seriously right-on anti-democrat to defeat Brexit. They might well revert to Conservative at the GE to protect their pockets. So, yes, 'They are Sophisticated'! In all senses of that abused word.
And what do we learn from this exercise?
1) Don't be a complete tosser.
2) Keep your MPs in order.
3) If an MP goes AWOL......Hit him very hard!
4) Never give the LDs a clear run at anything because they will benefit from it far too well.
5) Beating the Tory is not always the most sensible policy........Witness Scotland!!!
6) If one of 'Yours' puts up as an Independent...........Always contest against him.
7) UKIP and the LDs could take some seats off Labour, but will facilitate a lot of Conservatives gains at next GE.
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