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Post by Merseymike on Nov 29, 2016 9:23:47 GMT
Or refuse his application for the Tory whip? Simples! No. Need the numbers so he can have the whip restored. No problem there. Just get rid before the next GE. Then he stands Independent again and the Tories definitely lose the seat. But in any case, his local party clearly support him enough to be running his campaign |
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on Nov 29, 2016 10:45:08 GMT
No. Need the numbers so he can have the whip restored. No problem there. Just get rid before the next GE. Then he stands Independent again and the Tories definitely lose the seat. But in any case, his local party clearly support him enough to be running his campaign Very probably? But it doesn't matter. It isn't about him or the constituency. Today it is about winning to keep the numbers up and to vindicate Leave. Bugger Heathrow, as all the twats are against the right answer. There are enough Leave and pro-Heathrow and economic Conservatives to pull this off handled right. That is all. But he has proved that in most ways he is a not any sort of real Conservative so he is totally expendable and should be de-selected 'pour encourager les autres'! We can't have spoilt brats throwing wobblies when it suits them. Get rid. Make a point of it. The next GE is likely to see a good Conservative majority. If RC goes then it goes. I have my pragmatic side GOC and will team and ladle where necessary, but there is also a bit of the autocratic political commissar as well. I have walls and small squads with rifles!!! |
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Adam
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Post by Adam on Nov 29, 2016 11:02:56 GMT
..............AND he is the only LEAVE candidate! Actually, he's not. The Christian Peoples Alliance candidate (the only one of the other 5 candidates than Goldsmith, the LibDems and Labour to campaign), Stockford says in his election address:A position, surely, closer to UKIP's than Goldsmith's. I agree of course that Goldsmith is only Brexiteer with a chance of getting elected. |
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Post by Merseymike on Nov 29, 2016 11:26:43 GMT
Then he stands Independent again and the Tories definitely lose the seat. But in any case, his local party clearly support him enough to be running his campaign Very probably? But it doesn't matter. It isn't about him or the constituency. Today it is about winning to keep the numbers up and to vindicate Leave. Bugger Heathrow, as all the twats are against the right answer. There are enough Leave and pro-Heathrow and economic Conservatives to pull this off handled right. That is all. But he has proved that in most ways he is a not any sort of real Conservative so he is totally expendable and should be de-selected 'pour encourager les autres'! We can't have spoilt brats throwing wobblies when it suits them. Get rid. Make a point of it. The next GE is likely to see a good Conservative majority. If RC goes then it goes. I have my pragmatic side GOC and will team and ladle where necessary, but there is also a bit of the autocratic political commissar as well. I have walls and small squads with rifles!!! But the local party certainly won't deselect him, so if your aim is to keep him out of the Tories, it would have to be by depriving him of the whip. Given they wouldn;t even stand a candidate against him I think its fair to assume that won't be happening |
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on Nov 29, 2016 11:36:39 GMT
Very probably? But it doesn't matter. It isn't about him or the constituency. Today it is about winning to keep the numbers up and to vindicate Leave. Bugger Heathrow, as all the twats are against the right answer. There are enough Leave and pro-Heathrow and economic Conservatives to pull this off handled right. That is all. But he has proved that in most ways he is a not any sort of real Conservative so he is totally expendable and should be de-selected 'pour encourager les autres'! We can't have spoilt brats throwing wobblies when it suits them. Get rid. Make a point of it. The next GE is likely to see a good Conservative majority. If RC goes then it goes. I have my pragmatic side GOC and will team and ladle where necessary, but there is also a bit of the autocratic political commissar as well. I have walls and small squads with rifles!!! But the local party certainly won't deselect him, so if your aim is to keep him out of the Tories, it would have to be by depriving him of the whip. Given they wouldn;t even stand a candidate against him I think its fair to assume that won't be happening Probably not Mike.............Unless he loses? If he survives I expect he might be lent on centrally to go and he might wish to anyway having made his point and feeling both bruised and a bit out of place in a less liberal and far less green Conservative party? |
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Post by Merseymike on Nov 29, 2016 11:59:15 GMT
But the local party certainly won't deselect him, so if your aim is to keep him out of the Tories, it would have to be by depriving him of the whip. Given they wouldn;t even stand a candidate against him I think its fair to assume that won't be happening Probably not Mike.............Unless he loses? If he survives I expect he might be lent on centrally to go and he might wish to anyway having made his point and feeling both bruised and a bit out of place in a less liberal and far less green Conservative party? Oh, if he loses, he is finished. That I would agree with. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Nov 29, 2016 14:38:40 GMT
www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/28/richmond-park-byelection-and-prospect-of-progressive-allianceSeveral prominent members of the Green Party in Kingston have signed a letter criticising Caroline Lucas and calling on a vote for Christian Wolmer. I have heard a lot of comments from friends in Kingston who have been very unhappy they have not been involved with conversations and plans between Caroline's office and the Richmond party. The local party's likely target ward for 2018 is in the constituency and they have been blocked from airing concerns. I've noticed that in London the Green Party is mostly (or always?) organised on a borough basis. Great for council elections and as the Assembly seats are combinations of whole boroughs it shouldn't be a problem there but how does it work with cross borough parliamentary seats? Who exactly makes the call on the candidate or not standing or who to back? (We don't have any such seats in Newham.) Some of the reports seem to imply the Richmond and Kingston parties didn't actually get together to decide things but instead Richmond made announcements and Kingston members pretty much had to go along with it. Perhaps we could have a system that removed any need for tactical voting/ standing down, and where voters could express their preferences between parties without fear of "wasted votes". |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Nov 29, 2016 14:42:21 GMT
I kind of want to see a Lib Dem victory here just because it would be one less Tory and the difference between 8 and 9 Lib Dems in Parliament doesn't amount to much. Whether I could bring myself to vote for them if I was a local is another matter. I think that's an interesting point of view and shows how endorsements of one party by the leadership of another, or assumptions about how voters of the smaller parties (inc LDs where appropriate) might vote tactically, are very dodgy. I wonder how many Labour voters in RP are considering voting tactically, and how many of them might prefer to see Goldsmith re-elected rather than have a LD? If I was "told" to vote Progressive Alliance in Crewe & Nantwich (which presumably would mean Labour) I almost certainly wouldn't. Almost certainly not given the Labour candidate in 2015 and definitely not in 2010! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2016 16:44:01 GMT
..............AND he is the only LEAVE candidate! Actually, he's not. The Christian Peoples Alliance candidate (the only one of the other 5 candidates than Goldsmith, the LibDems and Labour to campaign), Stockford says in his election address:A position, surely, closer to UKIP's than Goldsmith's. I agree of course that Goldsmith is only Brexiteer with a chance of getting elected. Vote Christian Peoples Alliance, get Tory! |
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Post by curiousliberal on Nov 29, 2016 17:28:15 GMT
Actually, he's not. The Christian Peoples Alliance candidate (the only one of the other 5 candidates than Goldsmith, the LibDems and Labour to campaign), Stockford says in his election address:A position, surely, closer to UKIP's than Goldsmith's. I agree of course that Goldsmith is only Brexiteer with a chance of getting elected. Vote Christian Peoples Alliance, get Tory! They are led by the vicar's daughter, after all. |
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Adam
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Post by Adam on Nov 29, 2016 18:20:25 GMT
Surely the LibDems would prefer Brexiteers to vote CPA than Goldsmith just as Goldsmith's canvassers are urging anti-Brexit "progressives" to vote Labour (as one actually told me).
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Post by AdminSTB on Nov 29, 2016 18:54:07 GMT
Come on Blue Team and fellow travellers. It has to be Goldsmith. He may be a rich spoilt arrogant Green prat..............BUT, he is 'OUR' rich spoilt arrogant Green prat..............AND he is the only LEAVE candidate! So, shut up, hold your noses and ease him past the post. Then de-select the fucker and get a proper candidate for the GE. You're right Carlton. I would hold my nose and vote for Goldsmith owing to the Lib Dems' open disregard for the referendum result. But if he loses, he deserves to be pointed at and laughed at because he will have brought it entirely on himself. Not only will he have lost his seat but he probably won't get another opportunity to make a comeback. |
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Post by andrew111 on Nov 29, 2016 19:18:45 GMT
Adam,
Yes, I have noticed the Tory supporters of Zac on Twitter repeatedly rubbishing the lib Dems for going into coalition with them!
Well, I suspect the referendum is more current than the coalition in RP for most Labour voters in a by-election..
Meanwhile if brexit Tories and Kippers on here would only vote Zac reluctantly, what about the 50% of Richmond Tories (including London weighting) who voted Remain?? If a lot of his former supporters would have to hold their nose to vote for him he could indeed be in trouble. Add to that that the Lib Dems probably have an advantage in GOTV... (Hillary had that of course! I think GOTV is exaggerated in reality. Most people who are going to vote will vote and those who are not will not however many people call on them. Surely no-one in RP can really be unaware there is an election on! )
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nitory
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Post by nitory on Nov 29, 2016 19:35:19 GMT
Surely the LibDems would prefer Brexiteers to vote CPA than Goldsmith just as Goldsmith's canvassers are urging anti-Brexit "progressives" to vote Labour (as one actually told me). Surely that would have the opposite than intended effect? If I was on the fence between Labour and Lib Dems and Goldsmith canvassers were urging me to vote Labour, alarm bells would be ringing. |
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on Nov 29, 2016 19:47:13 GMT
Adam, Yes, I have noticed the Tory supporters of Zac on Twitter repeatedly rubbishing the lib Dems for going into coalition with them! Well, I suspect the referendum is more current than the coalition in RP for most Labour voters in a by-election.. Meanwhile if brexit Tories and Kippers on here would only vote Zac reluctantly, what about the 50% of Richmond Tories (including London weighting) who voted Remain?? If a lot of his former supporters would have to hold their nose to vote for him he could indeed be in trouble. Add to that that the Lib Dems probably have an advantage in GOTV... (Hillary had that of course! I think GOTV is exaggerated in reality. Most people who are going to vote will vote and those who are not will not however many people call on them. Surely no-one in RP can really be unaware there is an election on! ) The LDs have an advantage in GOTV!! As evidenced by Zac's majority I suppose? "Most people who are going to vote will vote and those who are not will not..." Nobel prize must be close at hand. "Surely no one in RP can really be unaware there is an election on!"?? Have you ever done any canvassing? |
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Post by timrollpickering on Nov 29, 2016 19:52:40 GMT
I've noticed that in London the Green Party is mostly (or always?) organised on a borough basis. Great for council elections and as the Assembly seats are combinations of whole boroughs it shouldn't be a problem there but how does it work with cross borough parliamentary seats? Who exactly makes the call on the candidate or not standing or who to back? (We don't have any such seats in Newham.) Some of the reports seem to imply the Richmond and Kingston parties didn't actually get together to decide things but instead Richmond made announcements and Kingston members pretty much had to go along with it. Perhaps we could have a system that removed any need for tactical voting/ standing down, and where voters could express their preferences between parties without fear of "wasted votes". I think we've had enough back and forth about the AV referendum itself, but even under AV and STV you can and do get parties making strategic decisions about standing (e.g. in Australia the two Coalition parties often don't field competing candidates, especially in the optional preference states; both Northern Ireland & Ireland offers plenty of examples of parties doing a limited nomination and also screwing up with overnomination). And all systems have a potential for tactical voting. |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Nov 29, 2016 20:38:03 GMT
Adam, Yes, I have noticed the Tory supporters of Zac on Twitter repeatedly rubbishing the lib Dems for going into coalition with them! Well, I suspect the referendum is more current than the coalition in RP for most Labour voters in a by-election.. Meanwhile if brexit Tories and Kippers on here would only vote Zac reluctantly, what about the 50% of Richmond Tories (including London weighting) who voted Remain?? If a lot of his former supporters would have to hold their nose to vote for him he could indeed be in trouble. Add to that that the Lib Dems probably have an advantage in GOTV... (Hillary had that of course! I think GOTV is exaggerated in reality. Most people who are going to vote will vote and those who are not will not however many people call on them. Surely no-one in RP can really be unaware there is an election on! ) The LDs have an advantage in GOTV!! As evidenced by Zac's majority I suppose? "Most people who are going to vote will vote and those who are not will not..." Nobel prize must be close at hand. "Surely no one in RP can really be unaware there is an election on!"?? Have you ever done any canvassing? GOTV is, as should be crystal clear to anybody who's ever been involved in it, much more effective in low-profile elections. If you spend an entire day doorknocking, you will probably find at least one elector who has forgotten there's an election on (even in general elections) and plenty more who wouldn't have voted if you hadn't turned up. And you'll convince some waverers by your presence (if not always in your direction). But it is about marginal gains. An excellent GOTV effort is useless if you're getting beaten like a cheap drum. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Nov 29, 2016 20:41:49 GMT
I have a feeling there's some ramping going on in RP. But not sure by whom, or why!  |
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Post by andrew111 on Nov 29, 2016 21:09:12 GMT
Adam, Yes, I have noticed the Tory supporters of Zac on Twitter repeatedly rubbishing the lib Dems for going into coalition with them! Well, I suspect the referendum is more current than the coalition in RP for most Labour voters in a by-election.. Meanwhile if brexit Tories and Kippers on here would only vote Zac reluctantly, what about the 50% of Richmond Tories (including London weighting) who voted Remain?? If a lot of his former supporters would have to hold their nose to vote for him he could indeed be in trouble. Add to that that the Lib Dems probably have an advantage in GOTV... (Hillary had that of course! I think GOTV is exaggerated in reality. Most people who are going to vote will vote and those who are not will not however many people call on them. Surely no-one in RP can really be unaware there is an election on! ) The LDs have an advantage in GOTV!! As evidenced by Zac's majority I suppose? "Most people who are going to vote will vote and those who are not will not..." Nobel prize must be close at hand. "Surely no one in RP can really be unaware there is an election on!"?? Have you ever done any canvassing? In a by-election where they will have many volunteers fighting an "independent" with no overt support from the Tory machine, yes of course the lib Dems have an advantage. In 2015 with the lib Dems busy in nearby seats then Zac had all the advantage. If you think (for the sake of argument) that GOTV makes a difference of 1%, then the Lib Dems start 2% up compared to 2015... |
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markf
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Post by markf on Nov 29, 2016 21:38:10 GMT
sorry but hope Labour don't get enough votes to keep Goldsmith in, hope the Labour vote isn't the difference between Goldsmith & Olney
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