mazuz
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Post by mazuz on Nov 26, 2016 18:32:50 GMT
Welcome to the forum noorderling ! The Friese Nationale Partij (FNP, Fryske Nasjonale Partij in Frisian) actually exists, although they are only soft nationalists seeking more autonomy (though federalism) and the preservation of the Frisian language. The party has a Senator and has been part of the provincial coalition in Friesland since 2011. The Frisian regionalist movement had an important role in the official name change of the province from Friesland to Fryslân in 1997. I have to say I don't know why we need this thread if we already have this one, but if that's the way this forum works then so be it. There are always separate threads for national elections. Swiss referendums is the only exception I can think of (which is logical given the sheer volume). Hard to separate election-related and non-election-related content though. If we're going to talk about the FNP in this thread, which is interesting yet wholly irrelevant to the election, and about Monasch in the other one, which is relevant to the election, then I think we may as well just have one thread. But, as I said, this forum apparently works like that, so I'll go along with that  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2016 22:13:41 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2016 17:41:35 GMT
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right
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Post by right on Nov 30, 2016 20:05:50 GMT
There are always separate threads for national elections. Swiss referendums is the only exception I can think of (which is logical given the sheer volume). Hard to separate election-related and non-election-related content though. If we're going to talk about the FNP in this thread, which is interesting yet wholly irrelevant to the election, and about Monasch in the other one, which is relevant to the election, then I think we may as well just have one thread. But, as I said, this forum apparently works like that, so I'll go along with that Don't mention trains if you like on topic posts |
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Post by Antiochian on Dec 9, 2016 11:03:11 GMT
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Dec 9, 2016 15:50:26 GMT
Looking at the judge's line that 'conviction is punishment enough for a lawmaker' its obvious that in part that's an exuse not to impose a fine on Wilders that he could then make a big song and dance about not paying if he wanted. However the line may also come from something in the judge's own imagination. I expect that in the mind of the judge being publicly known as a convicted 'hate speaker' would be such unimaginable shame that he genuinely finds it difficult to comprehend that Wilders will see the conviction as a badge of honour. Very similar to the stuff often said about Nick Griffin: 'he's got a conviction for incitement.' Like the target voters care. |
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Post by johnloony on Dec 9, 2016 17:25:38 GMT
Outrageous that it was somehow deemed to be criminal for someone to say that there are too many Moroccans in the Netherlands. If there are X number of people from country A living in country B, it is logical for people in country B to have the opinion that X is (a) about right, (b) too many, (c) not enough. Why should one of those opinions be criminal, or "hate speech", but not the other two? It's illogical as well as illiberal. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Dec 9, 2016 17:49:22 GMT
Very similar to the stuff often said about Nick Griffin: 'he's got a conviction for incitement.' Like the target voters care. That's why Nick Griffin is now completely not the bankrupt, expelled former leader of a party which has only a tiny number of elected officials. |
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Dec 9, 2016 19:35:35 GMT
Outrageous that it was somehow deemed to be criminal for someone to say that there are too many Moroccans in the Netherlands. If there are X number of people from country A living in country B, it is logical for people in country B to have the opinion that X is (a) about right, (b) too many, (c) not enough. Why should one of those opinions be criminal, or "hate speech", but not the other two? It's illogical as well as illiberal. He didn't say that. He asked a crowd at an election night rally if they wanted more of fewer "Moroccans" (clearly referring to people of Moroccan origin who hold Dutch citizenship, as well as first-generation immigrants from Morocco) in "this city" immediately following news of disappointing results in municipal elections. The tone, target audience and provocative way in which he said it were clearly intended to incite hatred towards people of a particular background or ethnicity. |
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Post by Antiochian on Dec 9, 2016 19:49:40 GMT
Outrageous that it was somehow deemed to be criminal for someone to say that there are too many Moroccans in the Netherlands. If there are X number of people from country A living in country B, it is logical for people in country B to have the opinion that X is (a) about right, (b) too many, (c) not enough. Why should one of those opinions be criminal, or "hate speech", but not the other two? It's illogical as well as illiberal. He didn't say that. He asked a crowd at an election night rally if they wanted more of fewer "Moroccans" (clearly referring to people of Moroccan origin who hold Dutch citizenship, as well as first-generation immigrants from Morocco) in "this city" immediately following news of disappointing results in municipal elections. The tone, target audience and provocative way in which he said it were clearly intended to incite hatred towards people of a particular background or ethnicity. Did he use "air quotes" when saying "Moroccans"? Or did he say just Moroccans? Air quotes confer Dutch citizenship immediately to the party spoken thereof....  |
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Dec 9, 2016 19:59:52 GMT
He didn't say that. He asked a crowd at an election night rally if they wanted more of fewer "Moroccans" (clearly referring to people of Moroccan origin who hold Dutch citizenship, as well as first-generation immigrants from Morocco) in "this city" immediately following news of disappointing results in municipal elections. The tone, target audience and provocative way in which he said it were clearly intended to incite hatred towards people of a particular background or ethnicity. Did he use "air quotes" when saying "Moroccans"? Or did he say just Moroccans? No, those are speech marks in this case. Of course he just said Marokkanen. He had a microphone in one of his hands at the time anyway. I thought that would have been fairly clear. |
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Post by Antiochian on Dec 9, 2016 20:37:04 GMT
Did he use "air quotes" when saying "Moroccans"? Or did he say just Moroccans? No, those are speech marks in this case. Of course he just said Marokkanen. He had a microphone in one of his hands at the time anyway. I thought that would have been fairly clear. Reminds me of the Sermon on the Mount scene in Life of Brian.... "Did he say "Moroccans" or Moroccans?" Moreover did those at the back of the crowd see him do a single-handed air-quote that implied citizenship?!?  |
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mazuz
Conservative
Posts: 155
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Post by mazuz on Dec 9, 2016 23:13:06 GMT
To be precise, Wilders was convicted of group insult and incitement to discrimination, but not of incitement to hatred. Wilders is angry and will appeal this sentence (the cynic in me says he does it because it will get him even more attention for a trial seen as unfair by most...).
It remains to be seen what the political consequences will be (probably very little by the time the election takes place, people will stop caring after a few weeks), but polls indicate that most people think this trial should not have happened in the first place, and to some, a conviction without any consequences might be the ultimate proof that this has been a political process all along or something like that. At least I don't expect this trial to affect Wilders negatively (if the court expects anything like that they are indeed more than foolish), and if I were Rutte I would certainly not bring it up in any debate in an ill-advised attempt to make himself look Prime Ministerial.
Meanwhile, Lodewijk Asscher defeated Diederik Samsom in the PvdA primary (54.5%-45.5%) and is now the new leader of the Social Democrats. Asscher is slightly more Euroskeptical (though mainly from a "Dutch workers are being outcompeted by Poles and Romanians" perspective) and strikes a clearly harsher tone on integration of minorities, but all in all the actual policy differences with Samsom are very small and this change should be considered to be mainly cosmetical.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2016 6:07:01 GMT
Yesterday also saw the result of the PVDA leadership election. Deputy Prime Minister Lodewijk Asscher beat incumbent Diederik Samson by 54.5% to 45.5%. Next week Samson will stand down as leader of the PVDA' s contingent in parliament and will also give up his Seat.
So Asscher will take on Wilders and Rutte. During his tenure Asscher made Some critical remarks about young people with a Turkish background. This lead to the departure from the party of two Mp's with a Turkish background, who have since found the new party Denk.
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Post by overthehill on Dec 10, 2016 11:56:17 GMT
Very similar to the stuff often said about Nick Griffin: 'he's got a conviction for incitement.' Like the target voters care. That's why Nick Griffin is now completely not the bankrupt, expelled former leader of a party which has only a tiny number of elected officials. just one I think ;-) |
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Andrew_S
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Post by Andrew_S on Jan 23, 2017 16:45:30 GMT
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iain
Lib Dem
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Post by iain on Jan 23, 2017 17:46:49 GMT
Sounds sensible to me
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
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Post by Sibboleth on Jan 23, 2017 17:50:31 GMT
Trying to work out whether the PvdA or SP is currently the most pathetic and can't decide. The Dutch Left is the biggest joke.
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Post by Antiochian on Jan 24, 2017 20:09:13 GMT
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Post by No Offence Alan on Jan 24, 2017 23:17:53 GMT
Reminds me of Brown's "British jobs for British workers" slogan. |
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