Khunanup
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Post by Khunanup on Mar 12, 2017 9:39:44 GMT
Hurrah to Rutte et al for having the balls to stand up to Erdogan as he tries to drag the diaspora under his pseudo-Sultan embrace. This is not just him trying to win votes outside Turkey, this is a blatant attempt to interfere in the Netherlands' affairs. It'll be Austria next. According to a Turkish specialist on BBC News late last night what he is doing (campaigning for Turkish elections etc abroad) is actually illegal under Turkish law. This whole episode does seem to have been very hamfistedly handled by Rutte and the Dutch authorities though. It's wildly escalated and become a propaganda coup for Ergodan. That's the last thing anyone needs. |
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Post by Antiochian on Mar 12, 2017 11:53:26 GMT
Hurrah to Rutte et al for having the balls to stand up to Erdogan as he tries to drag the diaspora under his pseudo-Sultan embrace. This is not just him trying to win votes outside Turkey, this is a blatant attempt to interfere in the Netherlands' affairs. It'll be Austria next. According to a Turkish specialist on BBC News late last night what he is doing (campaigning for Turkish elections etc abroad) is actually illegal under Turkish law. This whole episode does seem to have been very hamfistedly handled by Rutte and the Dutch authorities though. It's wildly escalated and become a propaganda coup for Ergodan. That's the last thing anyone needs. Wilders is not exactly unhappy! Might even rebound well for Rutte too. Depends if the public interpret that he gave these minorities a long leash and now the minorities are choking him with it.. |
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Post by Antiochian on Mar 12, 2017 13:03:36 GMT
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Mar 12, 2017 15:57:58 GMT
Hurrah to Rutte et al for having the balls to stand up to Erdogan as he tries to drag the diaspora under his pseudo-Sultan embrace. This is not just him trying to win votes outside Turkey, this is a blatant attempt to interfere in the Netherlands' affairs. It'll be Austria next. According to a Turkish specialist on BBC News late last night what he is doing (campaigning for Turkish elections etc abroad) is actually illegal under Turkish law. This whole episode does seem to have been very hamfistedly handled by Rutte and the Dutch authorities though. It's wildly escalated and become a propaganda coup for Ergodan. That's the last thing anyone needs. I respectfully disagree- my view is that Rutte has just made it clear that the Dutch government is master in its own house. That is surely going to play well, as well as being the right thing to do. |
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Khunanup
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Post by Khunanup on Mar 12, 2017 20:11:10 GMT
According to a Turkish specialist on BBC News late last night what he is doing (campaigning for Turkish elections etc abroad) is actually illegal under Turkish law. This whole episode does seem to have been very hamfistedly handled by Rutte and the Dutch authorities though. It's wildly escalated and become a propaganda coup for Ergodan. That's the last thing anyone needs. I respectfully disagree- my view is that Rutte has just made it clear that the Dutch government is master in its own house. That is surely going to play well, as well as being the right thing to do. I'm not saying it won't play well for Rutte, indeed I don't think the way he has handled it has been good news at all for Wilders. Regardless of that, diplomatically it has been hamfisted and even more so the way it has been done has been gold dust for Erdogan, strengthening his hand at home, among the diaspora and fuelling the persecution complex he is trying to foster to justify his actions. One might almost think Rutte has done exactly what Ergodan hoped he would... I'm sure there was a way of achieving the outcome that Rutte wanted and probably needed without being so helpful to Erdogan. |
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Post by Antiochian on Mar 12, 2017 21:02:16 GMT
I respectfully disagree- my view is that Rutte has just made it clear that the Dutch government is master in its own house. That is surely going to play well, as well as being the right thing to do. I'm not saying it won't play well for Rutte, indeed I don't think the way he has handled it has been good news at all for Wilders. Regardless of that, diplomatically it has been hamfisted and even more so the way it has been done has been gold dust for Erdogan, strengthening his hand at home, among the diaspora and fuelling the persecution complex he is trying to foster to justify his actions. One might almost think Rutte has done exactly what Ergodan hoped he would... I'm sure there was a way of achieving the outcome that Rutte wanted and probably needed without being so helpful to Erdogan. This (from Zerohedge) scarcely sounds like a win for Erdogan: "Concerns about Turkey's erratic diplomacy spread to Germany where Chancellor Angela Merkel said she will do all she can to prevent Turkey's domestic tensions spreading onto German territory. Austria and Switzerland have also canceled Turkish rallies due to the escalating dispute. A senior member of her conservative bloc in parliament, Hans Michelbach, demanded on Sunday that the EU stop aid to Turkey and ruled out any hopes that it would join the EU. "There is no prospect of entry in the long run. Turkey is getting further and further away from the European Union. Support programs (that it gets as an EU candidate) are therefore a waste of taxpayers' money," he said in a statement. In what may have been the harshest recent diplomatic takedown of Turkey, Michelbach said that "it is time that the EU stops performing like a diplomatic paper tiger towards Ankara. Europe must not be led by the nose round the Turkish election arena.""" He has the whole EU potentially offisde. The Turkish eceonomy is very fragile at this moment and the tourism industry could go even more to hell... |
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Post by Antiochian on Mar 12, 2017 22:33:27 GMT
More demonstrations in Den Haag and most importantly Amsterdam.. this evening. www.telegraaf.nl/tv/nieuws/binnenland/27787359/__Turkse_demonstranten_nemen_Dam_in__.htmlI am not seeing how in the least this is helping Erdogan.. there is rather a feel of Fifth Column about the fact that this group have been in the Netherlands for decades and yet they are pretty clear about where their loyalties lie and in fact project the all too common view from these groups that the government should accommodate to them and their homeland politics. If this doesn't help Wilders I would be very surprised. The actions of recent days have been "in your face" for the average Dutch citizen. |
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Post by Antiochian on Mar 12, 2017 22:50:56 GMT
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Khunanup
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Post by Khunanup on Mar 12, 2017 23:03:25 GMT
I'm not saying it won't play well for Rutte, indeed I don't think the way he has handled it has been good news at all for Wilders. Regardless of that, diplomatically it has been hamfisted and even more so the way it has been done has been gold dust for Erdogan, strengthening his hand at home, among the diaspora and fuelling the persecution complex he is trying to foster to justify his actions. One might almost think Rutte has done exactly what Ergodan hoped he would... I'm sure there was a way of achieving the outcome that Rutte wanted and probably needed without being so helpful to Erdogan. This (from Zerohedge) scarcely sounds like a win for Erdogan: "Concerns about Turkey's erratic diplomacy spread to Germany where Chancellor Angela Merkel said she will do all she can to prevent Turkey's domestic tensions spreading onto German territory. Austria and Switzerland have also canceled Turkish rallies due to the escalating dispute. A senior member of her conservative bloc in parliament, Hans Michelbach, demanded on Sunday that the EU stop aid to Turkey and ruled out any hopes that it would join the EU. "There is no prospect of entry in the long run. Turkey is getting further and further away from the European Union. Support programs (that it gets as an EU candidate) are therefore a waste of taxpayers' money," he said in a statement. In what may have been the harshest recent diplomatic takedown of Turkey, Michelbach said that "it is time that the EU stops performing like a diplomatic paper tiger towards Ankara. Europe must not be led by the nose round the Turkish election arena.""" He has the whole EU potentially offisde. The Turkish eceonomy is very fragile at this moment and the tourism industry could go even more to hell... I think you mistakenly think Erdogan cares about anything other than his power in Turkey. This international stuff is just a means to an end for him. He has no interest in joining the EU and never really has (it's a moot point anyway, under his regime the chances of Turkey joining the EU are zero because they would never get anywhere near to passing the criteria). Turkey in his own image, that is the goal... |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2017 23:10:42 GMT
This (from Zerohedge) scarcely sounds like a win for Erdogan: "Concerns about Turkey's erratic diplomacy spread to Germany where Chancellor Angela Merkel said she will do all she can to prevent Turkey's domestic tensions spreading onto German territory. Austria and Switzerland have also canceled Turkish rallies due to the escalating dispute. A senior member of her conservative bloc in parliament, Hans Michelbach, demanded on Sunday that the EU stop aid to Turkey and ruled out any hopes that it would join the EU. "There is no prospect of entry in the long run. Turkey is getting further and further away from the European Union. Support programs (that it gets as an EU candidate) are therefore a waste of taxpayers' money," he said in a statement. In what may have been the harshest recent diplomatic takedown of Turkey, Michelbach said that "it is time that the EU stops performing like a diplomatic paper tiger towards Ankara. Europe must not be led by the nose round the Turkish election arena.""" He has the whole EU potentially offisde. The Turkish eceonomy is very fragile at this moment and the tourism industry could go even more to hell... I think you mistakenly think Erdogan cares about anything other than his power in Turkey. This international stuff is just a means to an end for him. He has no interest in joining the EU and never really has (it's a moot point anyway, under his regime the chances of Turkey joining the EU are zero because they would never get anywhere near to passing the criteria). Turkey in his own image, that is the goal... Since when has passing the criteria been required! |
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Khunanup
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Post by Khunanup on Mar 12, 2017 23:27:56 GMT
I think you mistakenly think Erdogan cares about anything other than his power in Turkey. This international stuff is just a means to an end for him. He has no interest in joining the EU and never really has (it's a moot point anyway, under his regime the chances of Turkey joining the EU are zero because they would never get anywhere near to passing the criteria). Turkey in his own image, that is the goal... Since when has passing the criteria been required! Since at least '95. |
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Post by finsobruce on Mar 12, 2017 23:48:27 GMT
At a wild guess, I would say it is the "non" bit. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2017 23:50:56 GMT
Since when has passing the criteria been required! Since at least '95. do you honestly believe that is true? Lmao, deluded you are child. |
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Khunanup
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Post by Khunanup on Mar 13, 2017 1:46:44 GMT
do you honestly believe that is true? Lmao, deluded you are child. Yeah I'm a traitor too according to you.   |
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Post by Antiochian on Mar 13, 2017 10:27:33 GMT
Interesting article on Denk (the Turkish party) here: www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/27788553/__Aanbod_Kuzu_valt_verkeerd__.htmlThe leader, Kuzu offered to de-escalate tensions and then the Labour leader, Asscher, came out and accused him of wanting to put out a fire that he had lit. It also didn't go down well that he claimed police had attacked the demonstrators while the general view is that the demonstrators were on the attack. The article also refers to Denk and its supporters retweeting from sites with a history of being "fake news" sources. Of course Erdogan was a master of fake news when Trump and his crew (metaphorically speaking) were still wearing short trousers. |
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mazuz
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Post by mazuz on Mar 13, 2017 11:25:04 GMT
Obviously this is playing directly into Erdogan's hands, who seeks to make this an issue of Turkish national pride vs. evil foreigners because this works every time in Turkey. That said, it is not Rutte's responsibility to ensure a no in the Turkish referendum. It is Rutte's responsibility to ensure that we decide what happens in our own country, not a foreign government. Given his lousy track record on this very theme I did not expect him and the government to handle this row this well and I was pleasantly surprised, but that's the VVD in election time for you. According to Bild, however, Rutte had requested that Turkish Foreign Minister Cavusoglu only visit the Netherlands after our election on Wednesday, which means Rutte's supposedly principled opposition to Turkish politicians campaigning in the Netherlands was about as valuable or sincere as his broken promises in 2012 -- truly the Rutte we know.
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Post by Antiochian on Mar 13, 2017 12:23:56 GMT
Travel warning issued now by Dutch Foreign Ministry.... there goes the summer tourist trade..
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Post by carlton43 on Mar 13, 2017 12:37:09 GMT
Travel warning issued now by Dutch Foreign Ministry.... there goes the summer tourist trade.. We should all do so in Western Europe both as a signal of disapproval to him and all his works, but also because it makes good sense to keep our nationals out of potential danger. |
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Mar 13, 2017 13:01:39 GMT
Travel warning issued now by Dutch Foreign Ministry.... there goes the summer tourist trade.. We should all do so in Western Europe both as a signal of disapproval to him and all his works, but also because it makes good sense to keep our nationals out of potential danger. Agreed. Sadly, of all western European nations, I think the Germans would be the least likely to keep up their end of that bargain. |
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jamie
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Post by jamie on Mar 13, 2017 17:49:36 GMT
Greens and PVV tied in 2nd place with 13.3% in latest poll (I&O)
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