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Post by finsobruce on Oct 21, 2016 11:28:09 GMT
Conservative GAIN over Labour in Rothwell, Kettering Con 700 (48.3%; +10.6) Lab 498 (34.4%; -6.7) UKIP 108 (7.5%; -8.5) Grn 75 (5.2%; +0.1) LD 67 (4.6%) Well that's a bit sobering. One of the few recent actual election results that backs up what the polls are saying, in fact. Although - and i know this is a bit of role reversal - the Labour councillor here was very much the third one elected of three in recent times and this may have been either because of a personal vote or because that is all the strength Labour have in the ward. But with Lib Dems very weak here, we should have done much better. |
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Post by thirdchill on Oct 21, 2016 11:32:40 GMT
Well that's a bit sobering. One of the few recent actual election results that backs up what the polls are saying, in fact. Although - and i know this is a bit of role reversal - the Labour councillor here was very much the third one elected of three in recent times and this may have been either because of a personal vote or because that is all the strength Labour have in the ward. But with Lib Dems very weak here, we should have done much better. The labour councillor did get a couple of hundred votes more than the other labour candidates in previous electoral cycles so that's possibly a reason. A gain was always possible but the gap between the conservative and labour vote this time around must have been a disappointment for labour. |
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Post by finsobruce on Oct 21, 2016 11:40:16 GMT
Although - and i know this is a bit of role reversal - the Labour councillor here was very much the third one elected of three in recent times and this may have been either because of a personal vote or because that is all the strength Labour have in the ward. But with Lib Dems very weak here, we should have done much better. The labour councillor did get a couple of hundred votes more than the other labour candidates in previous electoral cycles so that's possibly a reason. A gain was always possible but the gap between the conservative and labour vote this time around must have been a disappointment for labour. Indeed. Although a la David Boothroyd in Abergele this was the result I went for in my prediction.    . It also might be the case that the UKIP drop went mostly to the Tories, as far as these things can be measured. |
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Post by Penddu on Oct 21, 2016 11:45:04 GMT
While i am waiting for the Pensarn result.......I am from Penybont. I always say 'yn Penybont' and not 'Ym Mhenybont' or 'a Penybont' and not 'a Phenybont' I dont know if i am grammaticaly correct but i have never been misunderstood or had soneone correct me. Some mutations just seem unneccesay Just out of interest, do you think that it would help the survival of the Welsh language by ditching the mutations ( I'm not talking about the plaid cymru leadership) rather than the bullying, discrimination and legislation thats happening at present? It's a genuine enquiry as it strikes me that surely it would make Welsh much easier to learn, or are the mutations so totally integral that they can't be ditched? The way to make a language live is to make it friendly. Welsh is growing despite the mutations and rules. French is contracting worldwide because if the rules (je parle Ftancais). English is growing because of Hollywood. Legislation and regulations on Welsh language has no negative impact on those that want to speak it in its various forms. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Oct 21, 2016 11:48:28 GMT
Blaengwrach, Neath Port Talbot PC 225 (48.0%; +3.6) Lab 143 (30.5%; -25.1) Ind 58 (12.4%) UKIP 39 (8.3%) Con 4 (0.9%) I dont sense a Conservative surge.... I have had to console Liberal/ Lib Dem candidates when they have ended up in double figures ... But 4 ! ! |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Oct 21, 2016 11:51:46 GMT
The nasal mutation of P is Mh, but anyway While i am waiting for the Pensarn result.......I am from Penybont. I always say 'yn Penybont' and not 'Ym Mhenybont' or 'a Penybont' and not 'a Phenybont' I dont know if i am grammaticaly correct but i have never been misunderstood or had soneone correct me. Some mutations just seem unneccesay Mutations aren't really "necessary". They just make the language flow. Honest. |
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cefin
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Post by cefin on Oct 21, 2016 12:40:00 GMT
Just out of interest, do you think that it would help the survival of the Welsh language by ditching the mutations ( I'm not talking about the plaid cymru leadership) rather than the bullying, discrimination and legislation thats happening at present? It's a genuine enquiry as it strikes me that surely it would make Welsh much easier to learn, or are the mutations so totally integral that they can't be ditched? The way to make a language live is to make it friendly. Welsh is growing despite the mutations and rules. French is contracting worldwide because if the rules (je parle Ftancais). English is growing because of Hollywood. Legislation and regulations on Welsh language has no negative impact on those that want to speak it in its various forms. And this is my concern for the future of Welsh language. Welsh is not growing at all and official figures continue to show a decline of up to 3,000 Welsh speakers per year. This is met by claims by the Welsh language fanatics that there is a massive uptake of education through the Welsh language medium sparking a new generation of Welsh speakers , which of course there is, including the many children of many parents who have been frightened into sending their kids to Welsh speaking schools because of fears over future job opportunities as the fanatics expand the protected Welsh language jobs bubble even when there is no need for Welsh speaking in the jobs advertised. I have spoken to many parents who regret having sent their children to Welsh language schools but admit to having done so due to just these fears. I couldn't even to begin to count the number of friends and associates that I have who went to Welsh speaking schools but can barely string a sentence together in Welsh having left it at the school gates. Unfortunately the fools who think that they are helping save the language and proudly point to the expansion of Welsh medium education appear to be too dull to have noticed that these kids stop speaking Welsh the instant they leave the school gates which fuels my concern for the future of the language and fuel my anger at those charged with saving it who are making such a hash of it. Encouragement and facilitating is the way forward not bullying and legislating. BTW, Hapless Leanne got taken to the cleaners today on the Daily Politics by Andrew Neil on just this subject amongst other topics, we could do with proper journalism like this in Wales rather than the witterings of a compliant dependent Welsh press pack who challenge or hold to account nobody. |
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Post by Penddu on Oct 21, 2016 12:53:22 GMT
Cefin, please dont be surprised when I find myself strongly disagreeing with you. There is no compulsion in learning Welsh, but there is a clearly suppressed demand for Welsh language education across large parts of Wales.
I take a very Thatcherite view on this - Supply and Demand is everything.
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Post by Penddu on Oct 21, 2016 13:00:20 GMT
The recent by-elections in Wales (sorry but that is my interest) shows that Labour is being kicked at the moment...by whoever is in best place to do so.
Corbyn is unelectable in one of the Labour heartlands.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Oct 21, 2016 13:11:41 GMT
The way to make a language live is to make it friendly. Welsh is growing despite the mutations and rules. French is contracting worldwide because if the rules (je parle Ftancais). English is growing because of Hollywood. Legislation and regulations on Welsh language has no negative impact on those that want to speak it in its various forms. And this is my concern for the future of Welsh language. Welsh is not growing at all and official figures continue to show a decline of up to 3,000 Welsh speakers per year. This is met by claims by the Welsh language fanatics that there is a massive uptake of education through the Welsh language medium sparking a new generation of Welsh speakers , which of course there is, including the many children of many parents who have been frightened into sending their kids to Welsh speaking schools because of fears over future job opportunities as the fanatics expand the protected Welsh language jobs bubble even when there is no need for Welsh speaking in the jobs advertised. I have spoken to many parents who regret having sent their children to Welsh language schools but admit to having done so due to just these fears. I couldn't even to begin to count the number of friends and associates that I have who went to Welsh speaking schools but can barely string a sentence together in Welsh having left it at the school gates. Unfortunately the fools who think that they are helping save the language and proudly point to the expansion of Welsh medium education appear to be too dull to have noticed that these kids stop speaking Welsh the instant they leave the school gates which fuels my concern for the future of the language and fuel my anger at those charged with saving it who are making such a hash of it. Encouragement and facilitating is the way forward not bullying and legislating. BTW, Hapless Leanne got taken to the cleaners today on the Daily Politics by Andrew Neil on just this subject amongst other topics, we could do with proper journalism like this in Wales rather than the witterings of a compliant dependent Welsh press pack who challenge or hold to account nobody. Examples? |
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on Oct 21, 2016 13:14:23 GMT
The labour councillor did get a couple of hundred votes more than the other labour candidates in previous electoral cycles so that's possibly a reason. A gain was always possible but the gap between the conservative and labour vote this time around must have been a disappointment for labour. Indeed. Although a la David Boothroyd in Abergele this was the result I went for in my prediction. . It also might be the case that the UKIP drop went mostly to the Tories, as far as these things can be measured. It is too early to say yet. We need a lot more Rothwells to see a real trend to be developing. If that trend does develop because people like me drift back to voting Conservative in small towns and suburbia then I think Labour may be in a spot of medium term bother. Witney was a bit poorer than I expected but that is because of the low turn out and the dislike of early unnecessary elections (it was unnecessary and he said he wouldn't do it) and knowing it didn't matter. I have no doubt at all that there would be a large Conservative majority in 2020 or for a snap election next year. |
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Post by finsobruce on Oct 21, 2016 13:22:31 GMT
Indeed. Although a la David Boothroyd in Abergele this was the result I went for in my prediction. . It also might be the case that the UKIP drop went mostly to the Tories, as far as these things can be measured. We need a lot more Rothwells to see a real trend to be developing. If that trend does develop because people like me drift back to voting Conservative in small towns and suburbia then I think Labour may be in a spot of medium term bother. Witney was a bit poorer than I expected but that is because of the low turn out and the dislike of early unnecessary elections (it was unnecessary and he said he wouldn't do it) and knowing it didn't matter. I have no doubt at all that there would be a large Conservative majority in 2020 or for a snap election next year. it is indeed (i did say might) and it is interesting that it a lot of by elections UKIP were standing where they had failed to do so before. The activists still seem to be there. Part of the vote may have stayed at home. And this is a Tory/Labour marginal with a particular dynamic. |
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Crimson King
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Post by Crimson King on Oct 21, 2016 13:23:29 GMT
I'm just praying for a Tory victory in Rothwell... They've been answered, it seems.  now will you reconsider baptism  |
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on Oct 21, 2016 13:32:17 GMT
They've been answered, it seems. now will you reconsider baptism 'Is he saved'? One has to ask. It is a question asked of me no less than three times in the airport departure lounge (captive audience or wot?) and despite me not flying very often. Each time I was alone and sitting alone and minding my own business reading a book. Each time I gave the same reply 'No. Apparently not. As it seems I still get persecuted by stupid American tossers like you'. That has always ceased activity if not hostilities. On two occasions there was a murmur of support for me but most British people are so quiescent about such matters. |
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Crimson King
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Post by Crimson King on Oct 21, 2016 13:50:04 GMT
now will you reconsider baptism 'Is he saved'? One has to ask. It is a question asked of me no less than three times in the airport departure lounge (captive audience or wot?) and despite me not flying very often. Each time I was alone and sitting alone and minding my own business reading a book. Each time I gave the same reply 'No. Apparently not. As it seems I still get persecuted by stupid American tossers like you'. That has always ceased activity if not hostilities. On two occasions there was a murmur of support for me but most British people are so quiescent about such matters. We all are, that's rather the point. I'm not sure why some people feel the need to labor (deliberate as often American) it |
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on Oct 21, 2016 13:57:44 GMT
'Is he saved'? One has to ask. It is a question asked of me no less than three times in the airport departure lounge (captive audience or wot?) and despite me not flying very often. Each time I was alone and sitting alone and minding my own business reading a book. Each time I gave the same reply 'No. Apparently not. As it seems I still get persecuted by stupid American tossers like you'. That has always ceased activity if not hostilities. On two occasions there was a murmur of support for me but most British people are so quiescent about such matters. We all are, that's rather the point. I'm not sure why some people feel the need to labor (deliberate as often American) it Err......Yes? What did you actually mean to say? |
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Oct 21, 2016 14:42:44 GMT
The recent by-elections in Wales (sorry but that is my interest) shows that Labour is being kicked at the moment...by whoever is in best place to do so. Corbyn is unelectable in one of the Labour heartlands. Labour's share in one of the contests this week was basically unchanged from the previous by-election two years ago. You make a sweeping statement which was not really backed up by this year's regular elections, and may not be in next year's either. |
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Post by Lord Twaddleford on Oct 21, 2016 14:50:34 GMT
They've been answered, it seems. now will you reconsider baptism No. |
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Crimson King
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Post by Crimson King on Oct 21, 2016 14:55:27 GMT
carlton43 sorry, perhaps the byelection thread is not the best place to discuss my interpretation of Methodist theology. If we accept that Christ's death was redemptive, once and for all, then we are all saved so there is no need for your interlocuters to have asked you. what they probably meant to say was 'do you beleve that you a) need saving, b) believe that you have been saved and (call me a cynic) c) would you like to join and contribute to our church as a result
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Crimson King
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Post by Crimson King on Oct 21, 2016 14:57:12 GMT
now will you reconsider baptism No. actually that was aimed at Pete, who was after all the recipient of divine providence |
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. It also might be the case that the UKIP drop went mostly to the Tories, as far as these things can be measured. 
