The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Aug 3, 2024 11:11:49 GMT
We know that Sunak flirted with the possible ignominy of being the first incumbent PM to lose his seat in the General Election, but managed to survive in the end; however it could be argued that Liz Truss carved out her own special place in history as she did lose her seat and had been PM during the dissolved parliament (albeit she wasn't the incumbent PM at the time of dissolution). I'm wondering if that has ever happened before? Yes - Arthur Balfour lost in Manchester East in 1906, having been Prime Minister up until a couple of months previously. Balfour is indeed comfortably the closest we have to "sitting PM losing their seat". |
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stb12
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Post by stb12 on Aug 3, 2024 12:28:18 GMT
There are a couple of examples of PMs losing their seats in Commonwealth Westminster systems
In Australia Stanley Bruce did so in 1929 and John Howard in 2007. In Canada two twice lost their seats, William Lyon Mackenzie King (1925 and 1945) and Arthur Meighan (1921 and 1926). In King‘s case his party actually managed to stay in power both times and by-elections were created to allow him to return to parliament and remain PM
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Post by Andrew_S on Aug 3, 2024 14:37:45 GMT
There are a couple of examples of PMs losing their seats in Commonwealth Westminster systems In Australia Stanley Bruce did so in 1929 and John Howard in 2007. In Canada two twice lost their seats, William Lyon Mackenzie King (1925 and 1945) and Arthur Meighan (1921 and 1926). In King‘s case his party actually managed to stay in power both times and by-elections were created to allow him to return to parliament and remain PM And of course Canadian PM Kim Campbell lost her seat in Vancouver Centre in 1993. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver_Centre_(federal_electoral_district)#Election_results |
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stb12
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Post by stb12 on Aug 3, 2024 14:49:21 GMT
There are a couple of examples of PMs losing their seats in Commonwealth Westminster systems In Australia Stanley Bruce did so in 1929 and John Howard in 2007. In Canada two twice lost their seats, William Lyon Mackenzie King (1925 and 1945) and Arthur Meighan (1921 and 1926). In King‘s case his party actually managed to stay in power both times and by-elections were created to allow him to return to parliament and remain PM And of course Canadian PM Kim Campbell lost her seat in Vancouver Centre in 1993. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver_Centre_(federal_electoral_district)#Election_resultsIndeed, that slipped my mind probably since nearly the whole party got wiped out there |
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Post by kitesurfer on Aug 3, 2024 16:30:18 GMT
What percentage of Lib Dem votes cast nationally were in the 72 seats won the party?
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cathyc
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Post by cathyc on Aug 3, 2024 16:39:57 GMT
What percentage of Lib Dem votes cast nationally were in the 72 seats won the party? 41% |
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Post by johnloony on Aug 6, 2024 16:25:36 GMT
It was a reasonably well-known fact that in the 2019-2024 parliament there were "only" 1 or 2 or 3 black male Labour MPs (the number depending on how you define "black") whereas there were several black female Labour MPs.
How many black male Labour MPs are there now? (The map from electionmapsuk says there are 89 ethnic minority MPs in total.)
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Post by johnloony on Aug 6, 2024 16:32:24 GMT
When I was researching the ages of the deaths of incumbent MPs since 1983 (the average age of death of MPs whose deaths caused by-elections in that period being 60), I discovered that Wikipedia claims that Martin Stevens (1929-1986), Conservative MP for Fulham (1979-1986), "was openly gay and was a member of the Campaign for Homosexual Equality". What evidence is there for that? I don't remember ever hearing any publicity or news coverage of him "coming out", or being "out", at the time or subsequently. It was only at about that time that Chris Smith came out as the first openly gay incumbent male MP, so any other MP being openly gay would have at least been commented on.
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
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Post by john07 on Aug 6, 2024 16:34:49 GMT
When I was researching the ages of the deaths of incumbent MPs since 1983 (the average age of death of MPs whose deaths caused by-elections in that period being 60), I discovered that Wikipedia claims that Martin Stevens (1929-1986), Conservative MP for Fulham (1979-1986), "was openly gay and was a member of the Campaign for Homosexual Equality". What evidence is there for that? I don't remember ever hearing any publicity or news coverage of him "coming out", or being "out", at the time or subsequently. It was only at about that time that Chris Smith came out as the first openly gay incumbent male MP, so any other MP being openly gay would have at least been commented on. Tom Driberg didn’t make much of a secret of it! |
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Aug 6, 2024 16:34:52 GMT
Wikipedia biographies for British politicians of the 60s-90s are often very bad and are frequently riddled with errors, some of which are not entirely innocent.
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Post by greatkingrat on Aug 6, 2024 16:57:24 GMT
When I was researching the ages of the deaths of incumbent MPs since 1983 (the average age of death of MPs whose deaths caused by-elections in that period being 60), I discovered that Wikipedia claims that Martin Stevens (1929-1986), Conservative MP for Fulham (1979-1986), "was openly gay and was a member of the Campaign for Homosexual Equality". What evidence is there for that? I don't remember ever hearing any publicity or news coverage of him "coming out", or being "out", at the time or subsequently. It was only at about that time that Chris Smith came out as the first openly gay incumbent male MP, so any other MP being openly gay would have at least been commented on. Wikipedia gives a reference to a book by Chris Bryant. However what that book actually says is "Martin Stevens, the Tory MP for Fulham from 1979 to his early death seven years later aged just fifty-six, was gay and a member of the Tory Campaign for Homosexual Equality, but occupied that curious world where everyone knew, but nobody wrote about it." I guess he was the Peter Mandelson of his day. |
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Aug 6, 2024 18:18:38 GMT
When I was researching the ages of the deaths of incumbent MPs since 1983 (the average age of death of MPs whose deaths caused by-elections in that period being 60), I discovered that Wikipedia claims that Martin Stevens (1929-1986), Conservative MP for Fulham (1979-1986), "was openly gay and was a member of the Campaign for Homosexual Equality". What evidence is there for that? I don't remember ever hearing any publicity or news coverage of him "coming out", or being "out", at the time or subsequently. It was only at about that time that Chris Smith came out as the first openly gay incumbent male MP, so any other MP being openly gay would have at least been commented on. Wikipedia gives a reference to a book by Chris Bryant. However what that book actually says is "Martin Stevens, the Tory MP for Fulham from 1979 to his early death seven years later aged just fifty-six, was gay and a member of the Tory Campaign for Homosexual Equality, but occupied that curious world where everyone knew, but nobody wrote about it." I guess he was the Peter Mandelson of his day. Think about Norman St.John-Stevas. He lived with his partner in 1956, eventually had a civil partnership in the last year - everyone knew, but it was accepted. |
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nyx
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Post by nyx on Aug 6, 2024 18:55:27 GMT
It was a reasonably well-known fact that in the 2019-2024 parliament there were "only" 1 or 2 or 3 black male Labour MPs (the number depending on how you define "black") whereas there were several black female Labour MPs. How many black male Labour MPs are there now? (The map from electionmapsuk says there are 89 ethnic minority MPs in total.) According to Wikipedia, Black men: Bayo Alaba (Southend East and Rochford) Callum Anderson (Buckingham and Bletchley) Calvin Bailey (Leyton and Wanstead) David Burton-Sampson (Southend West and Leigh) Adam Jogee (Newcastle-under-Lyme) David Lammy (Tottenham) Clive Lewis (Norwich South) Black women: Diane Abbott (Hackney North and Stoke Newington) Dawn Butler (Brent East) Juliet Campbell (Broxtowe) Janet Daby (Lewisham East) Marsha de Cordova (Battersea) Florence Eshalomi (Vauxhall and Camberwell Green) Miatta Fahnbulleh (Peckham) Paulette Hamilton (Birmingham Erdington) Natasha Irons (Croydon East) Kim Johnson (Liverpool Riverside) Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central and West) Abena Oppong-Asare (Erith and Thamesmead) Kate Osamor (Edmonton and Winchmore Hill) Taiwo Owatemi (Coventry North West) Bell Ribeiro-Addy (Clapham and Brixton Hill) So the women definitely still comfortably outnumber the men. Outside of Labour, there's one black Lib Dem MP (Josh Babarinde) and five Conservative black MPs (Kemi Badenoch, Peter Bedford, James Cleverly, Helen Grant, Ben Obese-Jecty). Notably, two of those five are newly-elected and another two are currently running to be Conservative leader! |
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Aug 6, 2024 19:10:28 GMT
It was a reasonably well-known fact that in the 2019-2024 parliament there were "only" 1 or 2 or 3 black male Labour MPs (the number depending on how you define "black") whereas there were several black female Labour MPs. How many black male Labour MPs are there now? (The map from electionmapsuk says there are 89 ethnic minority MPs in total.) According to Wikipedia, Black men: Bayo Alaba (Southend East and Rochford) Callum Anderson (Buckingham and Bletchley) Calvin Bailey (Leyton and Wanstead) David Burton-Sampson (Southend West and Leigh) Adam Jogee (Newcastle-under-Lyme) David Lammy (Tottenham) Clive Lewis (Norwich South) Black women: Diane Abbott (Hackney North and Stoke Newington) Dawn Butler (Brent East) Juliet Campbell (Broxtowe) Janet Daby (Lewisham East) Marsha de Cordova (Battersea) Florence Eshalomi (Vauxhall and Camberwell Green) Miatta Fahnbulleh (Peckham) Paulette Hamilton (Birmingham Erdington) Natasha Irons (Croydon East) Kim Johnson (Liverpool Riverside) Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central and West) Abena Oppong-Asare (Erith and Thamesmead) Kate Osamor (Edmonton and Winchmore Hill) Taiwo Owatemi (Coventry North West) Bell Ribeiro-Addy (Clapham and Brixton Hill) So the women definitely still comfortably outnumber the men. Outside of Labour, there's one black Lib Dem MP (Josh Babarinde) and five Conservative black MPs (Kemi Badenoch, Peter Bedford, James Cleverly, Helen Grant, Ben Obese-Jecty). Notably, two of those five are newly-elected and another two are currently running to be Conservative leader! Mark Hendrick? He is Anglo-Somalian - they are African - does this mean black? They are not Asian! |
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Post by johnloony on Aug 6, 2024 19:19:07 GMT
According to Wikipedia, Black men: Bayo Alaba (Southend East and Rochford) Callum Anderson (Buckingham and Bletchley) Calvin Bailey (Leyton and Wanstead) David Burton-Sampson (Southend West and Leigh) Adam Jogee (Newcastle-under-Lyme) David Lammy (Tottenham) Clive Lewis (Norwich South) Black women: Diane Abbott (Hackney North and Stoke Newington) Dawn Butler (Brent East) Juliet Campbell (Broxtowe) Janet Daby (Lewisham East) Marsha de Cordova (Battersea) Florence Eshalomi (Vauxhall and Camberwell Green) Miatta Fahnbulleh (Peckham) Paulette Hamilton (Birmingham Erdington) Natasha Irons (Croydon East) Kim Johnson (Liverpool Riverside) Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central and West) Abena Oppong-Asare (Erith and Thamesmead) Kate Osamor (Edmonton and Winchmore Hill) Taiwo Owatemi (Coventry North West) Bell Ribeiro-Addy (Clapham and Brixton Hill) So the women definitely still comfortably outnumber the men. Outside of Labour, there's one black Lib Dem MP (Josh Babarinde) and five Conservative black MPs (Kemi Badenoch, Peter Bedford, James Cleverly, Helen Grant, Ben Obese-Jecty). Notably, two of those five are newly-elected and another two are currently running to be Conservative leader! Mark Hendrick? He is Anglo-Somalian - they are African - does this mean black? They are not Asian! Aptly, that is part of the problem / confusion. When I was asking the question, I was thinking of (although I did not specify) who is black. Not who is half-black, or pale black, or mixed race. (Thus David Lammy is black but Clive Lewis is mixed-race black). Natasha Irons, also, is a very pale shade of black. Not that it matters either way, of course. It is only a matter of curiosity. |
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nyx
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Post by nyx on Aug 6, 2024 19:34:44 GMT
Mark Hendrick? He is Anglo-Somalian - they are African - does this mean black? They are not Asian! He was, for some reason, absent from the Wikipedia category of Black British MPs. This has now been fixed. Mark Hendrick? He is Anglo-Somalian - they are African - does this mean black? They are not Asian! Aptly, that is part of the problem / confusion. When I was asking the question, I was thinking of (although I did not specify) who is black. Not who is half-black, or pale black, or mixed race. (Thus David Lammy is black but Clive Lewis is mixed-race black). Natasha Irons, also, is a very pale shade of black. Not that it matters either way, of course. It is only a matter of curiosity. Finding information on who is mixed-race is difficult. The only male Labour MPs who definitely seem to be entirely of black heritage are Bayo Alaba and David Lammy, but there may be others. |
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Post by batman on Aug 6, 2024 20:24:39 GMT
It was a reasonably well-known fact that in the 2019-2024 parliament there were "only" 1 or 2 or 3 black male Labour MPs (the number depending on how you define "black") whereas there were several black female Labour MPs. How many black male Labour MPs are there now? (The map from electionmapsuk says there are 89 ethnic minority MPs in total.) According to Wikipedia, Black men: Bayo Alaba (Southend East and Rochford) Callum Anderson (Buckingham and Bletchley) Calvin Bailey (Leyton and Wanstead) David Burton-Sampson (Southend West and Leigh) Adam Jogee (Newcastle-under-Lyme) David Lammy (Tottenham) Clive Lewis (Norwich South) Black women: Diane Abbott (Hackney North and Stoke Newington) Dawn Butler (Brent East) Juliet Campbell (Broxtowe) Janet Daby (Lewisham East) Marsha de Cordova (Battersea) Florence Eshalomi (Vauxhall and Camberwell Green) Miatta Fahnbulleh (Peckham) Paulette Hamilton (Birmingham Erdington) Natasha Irons (Croydon East) Kim Johnson (Liverpool Riverside) Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central and West) Abena Oppong-Asare (Erith and Thamesmead) Kate Osamor (Edmonton and Winchmore Hill) Taiwo Owatemi (Coventry North West) Bell Ribeiro-Addy (Clapham and Brixton Hill) So the women definitely still comfortably outnumber the men. Outside of Labour, there's one black Lib Dem MP (Josh Babarinde) and five Conservative black MPs (Kemi Badenoch, Peter Bedford, James Cleverly, Helen Grant, Ben Obese-Jecty). Notably, two of those five are newly-elected and another two are currently running to be Conservative leader! I believe I'm right in saying that anyone with the forename Taiwo, male or female, is one of a pair of twins. |
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Aug 6, 2024 20:33:08 GMT
According to Wikipedia, Black men: Bayo Alaba (Southend East and Rochford) Callum Anderson (Buckingham and Bletchley) Calvin Bailey (Leyton and Wanstead) David Burton-Sampson (Southend West and Leigh) Adam Jogee (Newcastle-under-Lyme) David Lammy (Tottenham) Clive Lewis (Norwich South) Black women: Diane Abbott (Hackney North and Stoke Newington) Dawn Butler (Brent East) Juliet Campbell (Broxtowe) Janet Daby (Lewisham East) Marsha de Cordova (Battersea) Florence Eshalomi (Vauxhall and Camberwell Green) Miatta Fahnbulleh (Peckham) Paulette Hamilton (Birmingham Erdington) Natasha Irons (Croydon East) Kim Johnson (Liverpool Riverside) Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central and West) Abena Oppong-Asare (Erith and Thamesmead) Kate Osamor (Edmonton and Winchmore Hill) Taiwo Owatemi (Coventry North West) Bell Ribeiro-Addy (Clapham and Brixton Hill) So the women definitely still comfortably outnumber the men. Outside of Labour, there's one black Lib Dem MP (Josh Babarinde) and five Conservative black MPs (Kemi Badenoch, Peter Bedford, James Cleverly, Helen Grant, Ben Obese-Jecty). Notably, two of those five are newly-elected and another two are currently running to be Conservative leader! I believe I'm right in saying that anyone with the forename Taiwo, male or female, is one of a pair of twins. I believe so - all twins are Taiwo or Kihende, male or female |
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Ports
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Post by Ports on Aug 6, 2024 21:32:28 GMT
To demonstrate the 'regardless of gender part', the male Nottingham Forest striker Taiwo Awoniyi is married to a woman also named Taiwo.
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Post by greatkingrat on Aug 6, 2024 21:57:12 GMT
To demonstrate the 'regardless of gender part', the male Nottingham Forest striker Taiwo Awoniyi is married to a woman also named Taiwo. I bet they hope they don't have twins! |
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