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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2016 15:51:47 GMT
The trough was later than I thought, there was still population decline up until the 2001 census and possibly for a couple of years afterwards. The population had increased by the 2011 census, and to my knowledge continues to rise. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_LiverpoolThe peak was in the 1930's. So it was that late and the decline in every decade from 30s to 00s lost virtually half of the population! That is stark for a major city. What happened to all the vacant property? Quite large areas of the former city centre have been demolished and grassed over. Even much of what is left is in various stages of dereliction. EDIT: That is not to imply that the whole of Merseyside is a disaster area - it isn't. |
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Oct 9, 2016 16:26:24 GMT
What is the position now with decline at Liverpool? I recall that when I went to the Highlands in the 90s it was reported that Inverness was the fasting growing city in Europe whilst Liverpool was the most in decline. Not in decline any more. Still has it's problems, and certainly has one of the widest wealth gaps of any major city. The south and east end of the city (Cressington, Mossley Hill, Allerton, Church, Woolton, Childwall) is very middle class and drastically different to some areas of north liverpool and areas such as Speke. The centre of liverpool has also undergone quite a transformation over the last couple of decades. Some people's perceptions of liverpool as being uniformly dire with few jobs and poverty stricken are very much out of date, and even in the 80's and 90's all of the above weren't 100% true across the city. It still has it's problems in some parts but so do other cities so it's by no means unique in this. Agree with that. Liverpool has problems of structural intergenerational unemployment in particular parts of the city. |
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Oct 9, 2016 16:29:10 GMT
So it was that late and the decline in every decade from 30s to 00s lost virtually half of the population! That is stark for a major city. What happened to all the vacant property? Quite large areas of the former city centre have been demolished and grassed over. Even much of what is left is in various stages of dereliction. EDIT: That is not to imply that the whole of Merseyside is a disaster area - it isn't. There's very little of this description now. The problem areas are more the outer estates and northern suburbs like Walton. The derelict buildings have nearly all gone or are being brough back into use |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2016 16:36:37 GMT
Quite large areas of the former city centre have been demolished and grassed over. Even much of what is left is in various stages of dereliction. EDIT: That is not to imply that the whole of Merseyside is a disaster area - it isn't. There's very little of this description now. The problem areas are more the outer estates and northern suburbs like Walton. The derelict buildings have nearly all gone or are being brough back into use I haven't been there for three or four years, admittedly, but that was the impression I got then. |
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Oct 9, 2016 17:31:03 GMT
There's very little of this description now. The problem areas are more the outer estates and northern suburbs like Walton. The derelict buildings have nearly all gone or are being brough back into use I haven't been there for three or four years, admittedly, but that was the impression I got then. That might have been pre Liverpool One and while Rope Walks was still being redeveloped |
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Post by carlton43 on Oct 9, 2016 19:29:13 GMT
So it was that late and the decline in every decade from 30s to 00s lost virtually half of the population! That is stark for a major city. What happened to all the vacant property? Quite large areas of the former city centre have been demolished and grassed over. Even much of what is left is in various stages of dereliction. EDIT: That is not to imply that the whole of Merseyside is a disaster area - it isn't. No. Appreciate that. Been to Tate Liverpool and the main gallery a few times. But dramatic fall and must have left acres of disused property? |
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Oct 9, 2016 19:36:40 GMT
Liverpool is a depressed postindustrial port city. It's smarted itself up really well in parts and is nowhere near as grim as people assume, but is still a mess (i.e. having lost its function it has not found a new one) dependent on central government £££ in one form or another. But that's substantially better than the social disaster it was twenty years ago.
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Post by cuthbertbede on Oct 9, 2016 21:48:39 GMT
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Oct 9, 2016 22:21:01 GMT
Virtually all the tower blocks in the city and a couple of outer estates were obliterated some years ago. I don't think I'd be looking towards a return to population levels of the past. The main issue is the intergenerational unemployment which is focused most on some of the outer estates.
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Post by Lord Twaddleford (dormant) on Oct 10, 2016 11:20:59 GMT
It's a disingenuous reference to Lake Vrynwy in Wales. The people of a small village in a Welsh valley were moved to make room for a reservoir, serving the Wirral and greater Liverpool. I thought it was Capel Celyn where an entire settlement was thrown under the proverbial bus to make way for a reservoir to serve Liverpool. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Oct 10, 2016 22:34:55 GMT
It's a disingenuous reference to Lake Vrynwy in Wales. The people of a small village in a Welsh valley were moved to make room for a reservoir, serving the Wirral and greater Liverpool. I thought it was Capel Celyn where an entire settlement was thrown under the proverbial bus to make way for a reservoir to serve Liverpool. It was indeed, Vrynwy is Victorian isn't it? |
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Post by Lord Twaddleford (dormant) on Oct 10, 2016 22:42:45 GMT
I thought it was Capel Celyn where an entire settlement was thrown under the proverbial bus to make way for a reservoir to serve Liverpool. It was indeed, Vrynwy is Victorian isn't it? 1880s, according to some quick research. It was the Capel Celyn incident that caused the almighty row, which is believed to have helped seed the rise of Plaid Cymru in the elections that followed (though it is not believed to have had an appreciable impact on the 1966 Carmarthen by-election, however, which was largely put down to factors more local to that area). |
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Post by boogieeck on Oct 15, 2016 12:24:45 GMT
When we consider the housing shortage across the UK, it is always worth remembering just how many homes have been demolished in cities such as Liverpool and Glasgow.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2016 8:51:07 GMT
When we consider the housing shortage across the UK, it is always worth remembering just how many homes have been demolished in cities such as Liverpool and Glasgow. Is it? People have to move where jobs are. The problem is elswhere and to my mind totally independent of housing destruction in the regressing parts of the UK. |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Oct 16, 2016 10:24:08 GMT
In any case, rebuilding slums is hardly a sensible solution to the housing crisis.
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Post by boogieeck on Oct 16, 2016 12:33:25 GMT
You both miss my point, because I made it poorly. My argument is that if you demolish 20,000 slum dwellings, then you have to build 20,000 new homes somewhere else just to stand still. That is before the issues of falling household sizes, (divorce, long term widowhood) increased aspiration (students seeking flats rather than halls), immigrancy, are factored in.
My argument is that we needed to lock block the greenbelt. I have made it better before.
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msc
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Post by msc on Oct 16, 2016 18:50:25 GMT
I can't speak for Liverpool, but it wasn't just slum housing which went in Glasgow though - many of the old tenements, and townhouses went with the slums (to say nothing of the old schools, churches, town halls, etc...) Our current house was condemned during the 1970s - they demolished down the road but never got round to this block. Restored in the 1980s by Housing Association, perfectly habitable today. A number of blocks could have been saved in Gorbals and Govan (not all of them, there were some slums, its not a binary fact), but there wasn't the will beyond mass demolition.
Don't have the numbers to hand, but from memory there was a deficit in terms of "slums" demolished to "new houses" built by several thousand, exacerbated by the high rise issue of course.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Oct 16, 2016 19:20:01 GMT
It's a disingenuous reference to Lake Vrynwy in Wales. The people of a small village in a Welsh valley were moved to make room for a reservoir, serving the Wirral and greater Liverpool. Isn't it more likely to be Tryweryn rather than Fyrnwy? Sorry - already corrected upthread i.e. Capel Celyn. |
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Nov 8, 2016 14:25:07 GMT
I don't think the voters of Walton would be interested in riding in his carpetbag...... |
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Post by David Boothroyd on Nov 8, 2016 15:06:13 GMT
Liverpool Walton is 1.0% muslim.
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