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Post by Pete Whitehead on Mar 29, 2021 16:40:15 GMT
Found this - Brexit result on historic counties:- Not certain if it's 100% accurate. Hertfordshire as currently defined voted very narrowly to Leave. I'm pretty sure that if you remove Potters Bar and add the area that is in the London borough of Barnet that would translate to a narrow Remain win (Kensworth which is included on that map is not large enough to make a difference
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Sandy
Forum Regular
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Post by Sandy on Mar 29, 2021 16:56:21 GMT
Found this - Brexit result on historic counties:- Not certain if it's 100% accurate. I would've thought Banffshire might have been a narrow Leave win.
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Post by afleitch on Mar 29, 2021 18:36:29 GMT
Yes.
I'd have Banffshire as narrow leave (based on demographic regression) Possibly Sutherland too.
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Post by bjornhattan on Mar 29, 2021 20:06:55 GMT
Found this - Brexit result on historic counties:- Not certain if it's 100% accurate. Caernarfonshire doesn't look right - I expect Remain will have won Bangor by a mile and given Leave's low share across Gwynedd it's difficult to see where they would have picked up enough votes to overturn that. I also agree Scotland will have had pro-Leave historic counties. Some northern candidates have been mentioned but there might be another in what is now the Scottish Borders and Dumfries & Galloway. In particular, the latter had a 47% Leave vote, so it's easy to imagine one of the three historic counties there being just over 50%. My local knowledge isn't up to scratch so I'd not be able to guess which - any thoughts?
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Post by froome on Mar 29, 2021 20:22:53 GMT
Found this - Brexit result on historic counties:- Not certain if it's 100% accurate. Caernarfonshire doesn't look right - I expect Remain will have won Bangor by a mile and given Leave's low share across Gwynedd it's difficult to see where they would have picked up enough votes to overturn that. I also agree Scotland will have had pro-Leave historic counties. Some northern candidates have been mentioned but there might be another in what is now the Scottish Borders and Dumfries & Galloway. In particular, the latter had a 47% Leave vote, so it's easy to imagine one of the three historic counties there being just over 50%. My local knowledge isn't up to scratch so I'd not be able to guess which - any thoughts? I very much doubt that Bangor voted Remain by such a large margin. The university vote would have been easily counter-balanced by the WWC estates that make up much of the town. Westmorland is a slightly surprising inclusion in the Remain column. Yes Kendal would have voted heavily Remain, but the rest wouldn't have. Some of the southern counties in the Leave column must have been very close, especially Sussex and Hampshire.
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Post by bjornhattan on Mar 29, 2021 21:00:46 GMT
Caernarfonshire doesn't look right - I expect Remain will have won Bangor by a mile and given Leave's low share across Gwynedd it's difficult to see where they would have picked up enough votes to overturn that. I also agree Scotland will have had pro-Leave historic counties. Some northern candidates have been mentioned but there might be another in what is now the Scottish Borders and Dumfries & Galloway. In particular, the latter had a 47% Leave vote, so it's easy to imagine one of the three historic counties there being just over 50%. My local knowledge isn't up to scratch so I'd not be able to guess which - any thoughts? I very much doubt that Bangor voted Remain by such a large margin. The university vote would have been easily counter-balanced by the WWC estates that make up much of the town. Westmorland is a slightly surprising inclusion in the Remain column. Yes Kendal would have voted heavily Remain, but the rest wouldn't have. Some of the southern counties in the Leave column must have been very close, especially Sussex and Hampshire. You could be right about Bangor but it does seem like the university influence covers the large majority of the town, and with a near enough 60% Remain vote in Gwynedd, even those WWC estates would have been fairly close. The county as a whole will certainly have backed Remain though, given the overall Gwynedd figure. Westmorland is pretty similar to the South Lakeland council area which had a Remain majority of 3,700. Given the rough electorate of the part of Westmorland in Eden, and the local turnout, you would need a Leave vote of about 70% in Appleby and the surroundings to overturn that. I expect Leave will have won that area but not by anything close to that margin. Hampshire was Leave by a pretty clear margin - even just Portsmouth's majority is enough to cancel out the Remain stronghold of Winchester, and the historic county includes Bournemouth and Christchurch which ends up meaning Leave win by almost 100,000. Sussex on the other hand was very close - I added up all the modern Sussex districts and got: 470,091 Remain, 476,034 Leave. I suppose Bognor Regis, Crawley, and Hastings just about cancelled out the huge Remain majority in Brighton.
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Mar 31, 2021 7:13:40 GMT
Hereford & Worcester County Council, 1993 election. The two counties look like non-identical conjoined twins there. It is a matter of personal taste as to whether one thinks such an image belongs in a thread for pretty maps, I suppose... I am generally a defender of the 1974-system (as being less painful than RedcliffeMaude), but merging 2 large counties was really wrong (or naming Greater Birmingham itself as some kind of pars pro toto "WM"; or not splitting a "RibbleSide" from Lancs aso.).
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Chris from Brum
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Post by Chris from Brum on Mar 31, 2021 11:07:39 GMT
The two counties look like non-identical conjoined twins there. It is a matter of personal taste as to whether one thinks such an image belongs in a thread for pretty maps, I suppose... I am generally a defender of the 1974-system (as being less painful than RedcliffeMaude), but merging 2 large counties was really wrong (or naming Greater Birmingham itself as some kind of pars pro toto "WM"; or not splitting a "RibbleSide" from Lancs aso.). Greater Birmingham would have been very contentious; neither Coventry nor Wolverhampton, to pick on the cities at either end of the county, consider themselves part of a "Greater Birmingham" - Coventry is physically separate, and Birmingham is not really at the centre of the main conurbation, so "West Midlands" was probably the least bad option. Nonetheless, as it's also the name of the larger region, it does cause confusion, with some people thinking that the Mayor of the West Midlands post covers the whole region. There's potential confusion with the police area too, but that doesn't seem to happen, I guess it's had nearly 50 years to bed in.
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Mar 31, 2021 15:59:55 GMT
I am generally a defender of the 1974-system (as being less painful than RedcliffeMaude), but merging 2 large counties was really wrong (or naming Greater Birmingham itself as some kind of pars pro toto "WM"; or not splitting a "RibbleSide" from Lancs aso.). Greater Birmingham would have been very contentious; neither Coventry nor Wolverhampton, to pick on the cities at either end of the county, consider themselves part of a "Greater Birmingham" - Coventry is physically separate, and Birmingham is not really at the centre of the main conurbation, so "West Midlands" was probably the least bad option. Nonetheless, as it's also the name of the larger region, it does cause confusion, with some people thinking that the Mayor of the West Midlands post covers the whole region. There's potential confusion with the police area too, but that doesn't seem to happen, I guess it's had nearly 50 years to bed in. I would have made Coventry the capital of Warwickshire, to be honest. "Birmingham & BlackCountry" would have been too long, though. Thus only either "Gr. B." or "Black Country".
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Chris from Brum
Lib Dem
What I need is a strong drink and a peer group.
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Post by Chris from Brum on Mar 31, 2021 16:11:55 GMT
Greater Birmingham would have been very contentious; neither Coventry nor Wolverhampton, to pick on the cities at either end of the county, consider themselves part of a "Greater Birmingham" - Coventry is physically separate, and Birmingham is not really at the centre of the main conurbation, so "West Midlands" was probably the least bad option. Nonetheless, as it's also the name of the larger region, it does cause confusion, with some people thinking that the Mayor of the West Midlands post covers the whole region. There's potential confusion with the police area too, but that doesn't seem to happen, I guess it's had nearly 50 years to bed in. I would have made Coventry the capital of Warwickshire, to be honest. "Birmingham & BlackCountry" would have been too long, though. Thus only either "Gr. B." or "Black Country". Well, the use of "Black Country" is a subject in itself. Politically it tends to be used to mean the boroughs of Sandwell, Dudley, Walsall and Wolverhampton. But historically culturally the term covers only a part of that area, mostly in Dudley and Sandwell, with almost all of Wolverhampton and most of Walsall being excluded. There is a Black Country Society that defines the area as that sitting on top of the thirty-foot coal seam, so it includes most of Sandwell borough, Dudley town and Halesowen but not Stourbridge, Bilston but not Wolverhampton, and the southwestern part of Walsall, including Willenhall. I grew up in a village called Sedgley, between Dudley and Wolverhampton, this was on the edge of the Black Country by that definition. And Birmingham is in no way part of it and never has been - it was a city based on industry, not coal mining.
So you can see why coming up with a name for the new 1974 county was problematic. We don't even have a major river to fall back on like Merseyside, Avon, Humberside or Tyne and Wear, nor a dominant range of hills like Cleveland. Maybe the region should become West Mercia, but again there's a police area of that name ...
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ilerda
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Post by ilerda on Mar 31, 2021 16:15:05 GMT
I’ve always felt “X City Region” was a better term than “Greater X”. It implies forming part of a larger unit rather than being swallowed up by the big city.
Then again there’s always been some dislike of the name Sheffield City Region, particularly from Doncaster, hence it is being renamed the South Yorkshire Combined Authority.
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Post by Daft H'a'porth A'peth A'pith on Mar 31, 2021 16:48:24 GMT
I’ve always felt “X City Region” was a better term than “Greater X”. It implies forming part of a larger unit rather than being swallowed up by the big city. Then again there’s always been some dislike of the name Sheffield City Region, particularly from Doncaster, hence it is being renamed the South Yorkshire Combined Authority.
I now have a bizzare image in my head of Dan Jarvis singing "I've got a brand new combined authority"
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Mar 31, 2021 17:18:12 GMT
I would have made Coventry the capital of Warwickshire, to be honest. "Birmingham & BlackCountry" would have been too long, though. Thus only either "Gr. B." or "Black Country". Well, the use of "Black Country" is a subject in itself. Politically it tends to be used to mean the boroughs of Sandwell, Dudley, Walsall and Wolverhampton. But historically culturally the term covers only a part of that area, mostly in Dudley and Sandwell, with almost all of Wolverhampton and most of Walsall being excluded. There is a Black Country Society that defines the area as that sitting on top of the thirty-foot coal seam, so it includes most of Sandwell borough, Dudley town and Halesowen but not Stourbridge, Bilston but not Wolverhampton, and the southwestern part of Walsall, including Willenhall. I grew up in a village called Sedgley, between Dudley and Wolverhampton, this was on the edge of the Black Country by that definition. And Birmingham is in no way part of it and never has been - it was a city based on industry, not coal mining.
So you can see why coming up with a name for the new 1974 county was problematic. We don't even have a major river to fall back on like Merseyside, Avon, Humberside or Tyne and Wear, nor a dominant range of hills like Cleveland. Maybe the region should become West Mercia, but again there's a police area of that name ...
Could have gone with roads instead and been Greater Spaghetti Junction. Would have fit the mood of the 1974 reforms quite nicely, I'd have thought.
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Post by John Chanin on Mar 31, 2021 18:33:16 GMT
Birmingham city region or Greater Birmingham is the only sensible short reference to the city as a whole. I guess Birmingham & the Black Country also works, despite those in Wolverhampton who claim not to be part of it. The modern use of Black Country to encompass the whole of the 4 met boroughs to the west of Birmingham is reasonable enough. Of course Coventry is an entirely separate city, and it was odd to ever include it, which has led to the nomenclature problems. Note also that Coventry is doing well, as a reinvented manufacturing centre, whereas Wolverhampton’s pretentions to being an independent city have got it exactly nowhere. It needs to establish a role within the city of which it is part, which it has largely failed to do.
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Post by greenchristian on Mar 31, 2021 19:37:54 GMT
Greater Birmingham would have been very contentious; neither Coventry nor Wolverhampton, to pick on the cities at either end of the county, consider themselves part of a "Greater Birmingham" - Coventry is physically separate, and Birmingham is not really at the centre of the main conurbation, so "West Midlands" was probably the least bad option. Nonetheless, as it's also the name of the larger region, it does cause confusion, with some people thinking that the Mayor of the West Midlands post covers the whole region. There's potential confusion with the police area too, but that doesn't seem to happen, I guess it's had nearly 50 years to bed in. I would have made Coventry the capital of Warwickshire, to be honest. "Birmingham & BlackCountry" would have been too long, though. Thus only either "Gr. B." or "Black Country". That could well have happened if the division of powers between county and borough council had been uniform under the 1974 structures (it's unlikely that Warwick would have lost county town status, but Coventry would almost certainly have stayed in Warwickshire). But since the Metropolitan Boroughs had significantly more powers than their non-Metropolitan counterparts, Coventry was determined to go with the the arrangement that lost them the smallest amount of control. Which meant going into the same new county as Birmingham, and the city council was successful in lobbying for that to happen.
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Post by afleitch on Apr 1, 2021 19:54:24 GMT
Ballotbox Scotland are showing the 2017 local results by polling district for key seats. I posted this here simply because of that little Green splodge. Bonus points if you can guess why.
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Post by No Offence Alan on Apr 1, 2021 20:17:42 GMT
Ballotbox Scotland are showing the 2017 local results by polling district for key seats. I posted this here simply because of that little Green splodge. Bonus points if you can guess why. Is it Findhorn, which I gather is a bit "alternative"?
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Post by minionofmidas on Apr 1, 2021 21:03:35 GMT
Ballotbox Scotland are showing the 2017 local results by polling district for key seats. I posted this here simply because of that little Green splodge. Bonus points if you can guess why. Is it Findhorn, which I gather is a bit "alternative"? looking it up, part of it seems to be a wee bit more than "a bit" alternative.
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Post by Andrew_S on Apr 2, 2021 20:49:36 GMT
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Apr 3, 2021 3:33:17 GMT
I've been to towns in Germany right on that shoes on/shoes off border, and always made sure to ask before entering when I was invited into someone's house there.
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