Batley and Spen

[Sibboleth]

Uncertain what to think about this right now, but I will not that political parties have a right not to stand candidates as much as they do a right to stand them. They are private organisations with their own rules, and this is an important (and healthy) feature of democracy as practiced in this country.

Incidentally in France by-elections are only triggered by resignation; if a Deputy dies then their nominated replacement fills the seat (much as they would if the Deputy were appointed to a ministerial post).

[Devil Wincarnate]

Jun 19, 2016 19:42:56 GMT Sibboleth said:

Uncertain what to think about this right now, but I will not that political parties have a right not to stand candidates as much as they do a right to stand them. They are private organisations with their own rules, and this is an important (and healthy) feature of democracy as practiced in this country.

Incidentally in France by-elections are only triggered by resignation; if a Deputy dies then their nominated replacement fills the seat (much as they would if the Deputy were appointed to a ministerial post).

Whilst I do agree with the thrust of your comment, it does raise a question and scenario that might well not have existed before- a constituency association wishing to stand a candidate whilst the national party does not.  Obviously this happens to a degree with Labour in Northern Ireland, but is presumably a rarity on the mainland.

[Harry Hayfield]

Perhaps this will sharpen minds as to the rules on standing. The reason why a former BNP person and Liberty GB are standing is all they need are ten signatures and £500 (which a payday loan company will give any Tom, Dick and Harry). Now, a valid nomination being lodged only with 1% of the electorate in a constituency, now that would be a better method (and in this case mean that what the parties at Westminster want to happen, would happen)

[maxque]

Jun 19, 2016 21:46:11 GMT Harry Hayfield said:

Perhaps this will sharpen minds as to the rules on standing. The reason why a former BNP person and Liberty GB are standing is all they need are ten signatures and £500 (which a payday loan company will give any Tom, Dick and Harry). Now, a valid nomination being lodged only with 1% of the electorate in a constituency, now that would be a better method (and in this case mean that what the parties at Westminster want to happen, would happen)

Last Electoral Commission report suggested keeping the 10 signatures, but removing the £500 requirement.

Your proposal would be anti-democratic and, ironically, would preclude your own from presenting candidates almost everywhere.

[Davıd Boothroyd]

That "last Electoral Commission report", aside from the recommendations being a load of old tripe, was published as long ago as 2003.

[greatkingrat]

Jun 19, 2016 22:35:34 GMT maxque said:

Jun 19, 2016 21:46:11 GMT Harry Hayfield said:

Perhaps this will sharpen minds as to the rules on standing. The reason why a former BNP person and Liberty GB are standing is all they need are ten signatures and £500 (which a payday loan company will give any Tom, Dick and Harry). Now, a valid nomination being lodged only with 1% of the electorate in a constituency, now that would be a better method (and in this case mean that what the parties at Westminster want to happen, would happen)

Last Electoral Commission report suggested keeping the 10 signatures, but removing the £500 requirement.

Your proposal would be anti-democratic and, ironically, would preclude your own from presenting candidates almost everywhere.

If we lived in Harryworld, even Conservatives / Labour would struggle to get a full slate of candidates up.

[Sibboleth]

Jun 19, 2016 21:18:19 GMT Devil Wincarnate said:

Whilst I do agree with the thrust of your comment, it does raise a question and scenario that might well not have existed before- a constituency association wishing to stand a candidate whilst the national party does not.  Obviously this happens to a degree with Labour in Northern Ireland, but is presumably a rarity on the mainland.

Happened in some of the by-elections held during the Second World War.

[Deleted]

It's now time for a candidate from our very own Psephology Society

[J.G.Harston]

Jun 19, 2016 21:46:11 GMT Harry Hayfield said:

Now, a valid nomination being lodged only with 1% of the electorate in a constituency, now that would be a better method (and in this case mean that what the parties at Westminster want to happen, would happen)

Bl***y **ll, 750 signitures? How on earth do you propose being able to gather those between getting the nomination papers and close of nominations?

[right]

Jun 18, 2016 21:26:08 GMT swanarcadian said:

You can bet your bottom dollar that had there been any realistic prospect of a change of hands in this constituency (and there might have been in 2008/2009), there would have been a contest involving all the main parties in the usual fashion.

Not sure. Although there's no chance now it would have allowed UKIP a nice run up to 2020 and establish a strong candidate in a semi-safe Labour seat with a sizeable Tory vote (indeed bigger than the UKIP vote). Not quite the perfect UKIP northern seat, but close.

[Deleted]

This is what the Zombie Review proposed for Batley and Spen

[Davıd Boothroyd]

Recreates a famous name - the Spen Valley constituency was represented by leading Liberal Sir John Simon from 1922 to 1940, though he never won a substantial majority except in 1931. When he had first stood, he contributed to the Lloyd George coalition's run of byelection disasters by losing it to Labour in December 1919.

The 1885 Boundary Commission wanted originally to call it 'Birstal' (sic).

[Richard Allen]

Jun 19, 2016 21:18:19 GMT Devil Wincarnate said:

Jun 19, 2016 19:42:56 GMT Sibboleth said:

Uncertain what to think about this right now, but I will not that political parties have a right not to stand candidates as much as they do a right to stand them. They are private organisations with their own rules, and this is an important (and healthy) feature of democracy as practiced in this country.

Incidentally in France by-elections are only triggered by resignation; if a Deputy dies then their nominated replacement fills the seat (much as they would if the Deputy were appointed to a ministerial post).

Whilst I do agree with the thrust of your comment, it does raise a question and scenario that might well not have existed before- a constituency association wishing to stand a candidate whilst the national party does not.  Obviously this happens to a degree with Labour in Northern Ireland, but is presumably a rarity on the mainland.

Happened in UKIP at the 2004 Birmingham Hodge Hill by election. The branch Chairman Peter Johnson, who had polled very well in the Hodge Hill ward at that years' local elections, wished to stand but the national party wouldn't allow it.

[Deleted]

I doubt that the local Labour and Lib Dem parties in Tatton were wildly enthusiastic about stepping down in 1997 for what was basically a national political stunt (albeit an amusingly successful one).

[The Bishop]

I think there was some opposition from the local LibDems in particular, but IIRC they fell into line after an appeal from Ashdown.

It was nonetheless amusing to see lots of people with red and gold rosettes respectively applauding Bell at the count, though

[Davıd Boothroyd]

The Tatton count was organised by Macclesfield Borough Council and was in the same hall as Macclesfield constituency - as it happens, the Macclesfield Leisure Centre. My mum was living just up the hill from it at the time.

[Merseymike]

Jun 20, 2016 12:26:02 GMT @strinity said:

I doubt that the local Labour and Lib Dem parties in Tatton were wildly enthusiastic about stepping down in 1997 for what was basically a national political stunt (albeit an amusingly successful one).

I think given how utterly unwinnable the seat is for Labour and the particular circumstances, there wasn't too much disagreement. It did lead to one less Tory MP and a particularly discredited one at that

[greenchristian]

Jun 20, 2016 7:37:47 GMT J.G.Harston said:

Jun 19, 2016 21:46:11 GMT Harry Hayfield said:

Now, a valid nomination being lodged only with 1% of the electorate in a constituency, now that would be a better method (and in this case mean that what the parties at Westminster want to happen, would happen)

Bl***y **ll, 750 signitures? How on earth do you propose being able to gather those between getting the nomination papers and close of nominations?

In practice, you'd have to use the ones from the Electoral Commission website and start months in advance, hoping that that part of the form doesn't get changed before nominations open. Also, it would be almost certain that every candidate's nomination list would overlap with at least one other candidate's, so you'd have to try to get yours in before the other parties'

[markgoodair]

Jun 20, 2016 16:21:59 GMT greenchristian said:

Jun 20, 2016 7:37:47 GMT J.G.Harston said:

Bl***y **ll, 750 signitures? How on earth do you propose being able to gather those between getting the nomination papers and close of nominations?

In practice, you'd have to use the ones from the Electoral Commission website and start months in advance, hoping that that part of the form doesn't get changed before nominations open. Also, it would be almost certain that every candidate's nomination list would overlap with at least one other candidate's, so you'd have to try to get yours in before the other parties'

This is the same ploy that is used in many state's to prevent the emergence of viable third party candidates in America.

[Lord Twaddleford]

Jun 20, 2016 16:43:50 GMT markgoodair said:

Jun 20, 2016 16:21:59 GMT greenchristian said:

In practice, you'd have to use the ones from the Electoral Commission website and start months in advance, hoping that that part of the form doesn't get changed before nominations open. Also, it would be almost certain that every candidate's nomination list would overlap with at least one other candidate's, so you'd have to try to get yours in before the other parties'

This is the same ploy that is used in many state's to prevent the emergence of viable third party candidates in America.

The state of Oklahoma is particularly notorious for this; back in 2008 and 2012, whilst all other states had some Third Party presence, only the two main parties had their candidates on the presidential ballot. Oklahoma's particularly strict ballot access rules were most likely instituted as a reaction to the actually rather decent performance of Socialist candidate Eugene V. Debs, who in 1912 managed to amass 16.42% of the popular vote in that state.