Batley and Spen

[Deleted]

Jun 18, 2016 10:32:29 GMT swanarcadian said:

Jun 18, 2016 9:05:06 GMT joe said:

If nobody stands agaisnt Labour, I will.

Really truly? Good on you, sir. What would be your party label? Independent Conservative?

That label would not be allowed

[politicalmatrix]

Jun 18, 2016 12:32:38 GMT Yorkie said:

Very torn about this. Gut says in the interest of the democratic process someone should stand, but whoever that someone is would need to be very clear about their motives, otherwise they could come out of it very badly.

Are Yorkshire First considering standing? 

It would certainly make you more known if you were the only other party to stand but not entirely sure whether it would benefit you. Difficult one isn't it? 

[Yorkie]

Jun 18, 2016 15:36:10 GMT politicalmatrix said:

Jun 18, 2016 12:32:38 GMT Yorkie said:

Very torn about this. Gut says in the interest of the democratic process someone should stand, but whoever that someone is would need to be very clear about their motives, otherwise they could come out of it very badly.

Are Yorkshire First considering standing? 

It would certainly make you more known if you were the only other party to stand but not entirely sure whether it would benefit you. Difficult one isn't it? 

Very difficult. As a party we were very pro-Jo, I understand she was always pleasant at events towards our members, and she was a passionate advocate of devolution.

There's risk in whatever both Yorkshire First and any other smaller parties choose to do.

[greenhert]

Another surprising thing about these announcements is that they have been made well before the writ has been moved (it cannot be moved until 28 June in any event as Parliament is currently in a recess) and also before there has been enough time to mourn Mrs Cox.

[mrhell]

Vote UK Forum Party.

[andrea]

Liberty GB will contest the by-election

www.libertygb.org.uk/news/liberty-gb-contest-batley-and-spen-election-following-jo-cox-murder

[Merseymike]

The first of the fringe extremists declares.....

[Deleted]

Jun 18, 2016 19:49:08 GMT Merseymike said:

The first of the fringe extremists declares.....

Which is what is left when a vacuum is created by the main stream parties.

It is a shame on them that politics can't be strengthened by good honest debate in memory of Jo Cox, not in the back room of a Labour club meeting room to decide the candidate and winner.

[middyman]

How times change. When Ian Gow was blown up by the I.R.A. there was no standing aside in the subsequent by-election. Indeed, the seat was taken by the Liberals. Was that showing disrespect? Clearly, it was not thought to be, and I do not think it would today. The current PC stance is, in my view, well over the top.

[Deleted]

From Conservative Home

In 1990, the IRA murdered Ian Gow, then the Conservative MP for Eastbourne. The main opposition parties fought the subsquent by-election as usual. Indeed, the principal challenger in the seat, the Liberal Democrats, actually won the contest.



These are different times, and it has been announced that there will be no Tory candidate for the by-election in Batley and Spen. Some Conservative MPs who I have spoken to today – supporters of Remain and Leave alike – believe that this is the right decision. They feel that the murder of a Parliamentarian is so heinous an act that the Party should stand aside in the by-election as a mark of respect.

However, this is not the view of most of those I have spoken to today, especially those on the Leave side. The general take is that while recalling Parliament is one thing – it is to reconvene on Monday for tributes to Jo Cox – not putting up a candidate in the by-election is quite another.

The Gow precedent was raised with me by several of them. At its heart, though, the case for standing in the by-election is that since the murder of Jo Cox was an attack on democracy itself, it is all the more important that the democratic process goes on as usual, and is not knocked off its course by murder and mayhem. “It’s part of a cuture change,” one source told me. “There’s a touch of Diana-fication here.”

“It’s a mistaken decision,” one senior MP told me. Another said “that it’s understandable doesn’t make it right. The Liberal Democrats didn’t stand down in Eastbourne, and we shouldn’t do so now”. “I can see the argument either way, but can’t help thinking that the answer to an assault on democracy is more democracy,” said a third.

Whatever your view, one potential argument against the decision doesn’t apply. Were UKIP to run a candidate and the Tories not to, the former would have a chance to build up their position during the run-up to 2020 – in a seat that could otherwise be vulnerable to the Conservatives then. However, UKIP – like the Liberal Democrats and the Greens – apparently won’t be standing a candidate either. Downing Street won’t have wanted the Party to be the odd one out.

[Deleted]

You can bet your bottom dollar that had there been any realistic prospect of a change of hands in this constituency (and there might have been in 2008/2009), there would have been a contest involving all the main parties in the usual fashion.

[Deleted]

[finsobruce]

Jun 18, 2016 22:04:56 GMT doktorb🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️ said:

Liberty GB - a party whose leader, Paul Weston resigned from UKIP as it "had failed to confront the Islamic issue" . 

[thirdchill]

Jun 18, 2016 19:46:58 GMT andrea said:

Liberty GB will contest the by-election

www.libertygb.org.uk/news/liberty-gb-contest-batley-and-spen-election-following-jo-cox-murder

Looks like the crank outfits will be contesting then. If that's the case, my only hope is more of these outfits contest so they all only get about 2-3% of the vote at the most. Whereas if only one or two contest then there is a real risk of one outfit getting 10% of the vote or over.

This is my main concern with other major parties choosing not to contest. Political extremes gain a traction when there isn't a respectable voice there that isn't one of the major parties. The Lib Dems filled this prior to 2010, UKIP and the Greens fill this space now, and it's thanks in part to these two parties having a significant presence that other more extreme parties have not been able to fill this space.

That's not to say that The Greens are automatically attracting all the revolutionary socialists, or UKIP are attracting all the hard core racists. The very small number of people with those convictions probably dislike both of those parties intensely. The hard core racists have a deep seated loathing of Farage, for example. But otherwise people who are fairly respectable and who are not hard core racists or hardcore revolutionaries who advocate violence but are disenchanted with the main political parties may support UKIP or the Greens instead of one of the nasty extreme outfits.

However labour should expect to get at the bare minimum of 80% if none of the other major parties contest, possibly 90%.

[No Offence Alan]

Maybe Labour should stand down, too, in favour of a "Martin Bell" type independent?

[Deleted]

2 things have come to mind,

If none of the other parties wish to fight the by election as they don't want to win a by election by default.

Then why not have the electorate of Batley & Spen vote for the Labour Candidate?

Thus no one has gained from the tragic incident but the people of Batley & Spen and not Labour backroom staff/HQ or just generally anyone but the electorate chooses their next MP.

It also saves others who may wish to stir up trouble or just use the occasion for self advertisement.

I notice some folks call these people from minor party cranks etc.

Doesn't this just fuel the exclusion? These are people with different ideas and thoughts of how to run things to ourselves.

I am guessing there were a time when someone would have suggested that women having the right to vote and that slavery shouldn't happen was a fools folly.

Without discussion you can't get someone to see the error of their ways or for us to take on board what they are saying.

Throwing names around just entrenches both sides and as we have seen here lets one person feel so abstract from society that the democratic process gets you no where as they just call you a crank and they do something which they feel will make a change.

The folly of that being it normally makes their views be more extreme to the people they are trying to debate with.

By his actions of shouting Britons first, he has more than likely pushed them further back down the queue.

[Deleted]

Jun 18, 2016 22:51:29 GMT thirdchill said:

Jun 18, 2016 19:46:58 GMT andrea said:

Liberty GB will contest the by-election

www.libertygb.org.uk/news/liberty-gb-contest-batley-and-spen-election-following-jo-cox-murder

Looks like the crank outfits will be contesting then. If that's the case, my only hope is more of these outfits contest so they all only get about 2-3% of the vote at the most. Whereas if only one or two contest then there is a real risk of one outfit getting 10% of the vote or over.

This is my main concern with other major parties choosing not to contest. Political extremes gain a traction when there isn't a respectable voice there that isn't one of the major parties. The Lib Dems filled this prior to 2010, UKIP and the Greens fill this space now, and it's thanks in part to these two parties having a significant presence that other more extreme parties have not been able to fill this spaceLabour.r]That's not to say that The Greens are automatically attracting all the revolutionary socialists, or UKIP are attracting all the hard core racists. The very small number of people with those convictions probably dislike both of those parties intensely. The hard core racists have a deep seated loathing of Farage, for example. But otherwise people who are fairly respectable and who are not hard core racists or hardcore revolutionaries who advocate violence but are disenchanted with the main political parties may support UKIP or the Greens instead of one of the nasty extreme outfits.

However labour should expect to get at the bare minimum of 80% if none of the other major parties contest, possibly 90%.

Dont agree. There is greater than 10% of B+S that would never ever vote Labour. 80% is perhaps possible if these people dont turn out, but thats a max. Id expect 20% to vote for me if it was me v Labour.

[The Bishop]

Jun 18, 2016 22:04:56 GMT doktorb🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️ said:

I do believe he was one of the lovely individuals who screeched "false flag" soon after the Cox news broke.

[thirdchill]

Jun 19, 2016 7:38:32 GMT joe said:

Jun 18, 2016 22:51:29 GMT thirdchill said:

Looks like the crank outfits will be contesting then. If that's the case, my only hope is more of these outfits contest so they all only get about 2-3% of the vote at the most. Whereas if only one or two contest then there is a real risk of one outfit getting 10% of the vote or over.

This is my main concern with other major parties choosing not to contest. Political extremes gain a traction when there isn't a respectable voice there that isn't one of the major parties. The Lib Dems filled this prior to 2010, UKIP and the Greens fill this space now, and it's thanks in part to these two parties having a significant presence that other more extreme parties have not been able to fill this spaceLabour.r]That's not to say that The Greens are automatically attracting all the revolutionary socialists, or UKIP are attracting all the hard core racists. The very small number of people with those convictions probably dislike both of those parties intensely. The hard core racists have a deep seated loathing of Farage, for example. But otherwise people who are fairly respectable and who are not hard core racists or hardcore revolutionaries who advocate violence but are disenchanted with the main political parties may support UKIP or the Greens instead of one of the nasty extreme outfits.

However labour should expect to get at the bare minimum of 80% if none of the other major parties contest, possibly 90%.

Dont agree. There is greater than 10% of B+S that would never ever vote Labour. 80% is perhaps possible if these people dont turn out, but thats a max. Id expect 20% to vote for me if it was me v Labour.

There may be greater than 10 percent who would not vote labour but a fair number of those would stay at home if these crank outfits were the only other option.

[Devil Wincarnate]

If no major party stands, the turnout will be appalling.  A semi-contested election on an abysmal turnout will hardly confer democratic legitimacy on the winner.