Forum defections.

[john07]

Of course Labour collected the cream of the Socialist group with the defection of slicesofjim and @jimboo.

[Harry Hayfield]

As people have been asking, here is the resignation letter that will be read at the next meeting of the local executive for Ceredigion Lib Dems:

I never like to guess a person’s age (as more often than not, I am miles out) but I would hazard a guess that you do not personally remember the 1992 general election. That election, as I am sure you know, was the second occasion since 1885 that Ceredigion constituency did not elect a Liberal member as Geraint Howells (elected at the first election of 1974) was defeated by Cynog Dafis of Plaid Cymru on a 13% swing from Lib Dem to Plaid Cymru. I remember that election very well because I was so disappointed at the result, because Geraint helped my grandparents so much on numerous occasions between 1974 and 1992, that I joined the Liberal Democrats that summer with the intention of seeing a Liberal Democrat MP in Ceredigion again and seeing the Liberal Democrats enter government and when I spoke at a conference in Rhayader in 1993 I added that “Because this is a personal decision, only another personal decision is likely to reverse it”. Such a personal decision has been made.

When my grandmother was put onto the waiting list for a hip operation last March, I was fully aware that she would have to wait at least eighteen months. But wat I was not aware of was just how painful the condition was, and because of it, my grandmother opted out of the waiting list and had the operation done privately in Carmarthenshire, where they pumped her so full of morphine sulphate and codeine (drugs that her local doctor know knock her out completely) that when she was discharged five days after the operation, she was exceptionally sleepy and drowsy to such an extent that she didn’t know who I was and on one occasion said “Could you move to the left please? A vehicle is trying to pass by!” when I was wheeling her from her chair to her bed. When the district nurse came a few days later and did some tests, she advised that she be admitted to Bronglais due to a low sodium level and for the next four weeks (two in Bronglais and two in Tregaron) the NHS nursed her back to her normal alert self. Since then, she had a pain in her back below her shoulder blade and so asked me to phone the surgery in Aberaeron, but as they were closed I had to phone NHS Direct Wales where after answering forty-five minutes’ worth of questions about the inanest things, a doctor phoned back which is what she wanted to happen in the first place and this, quite frankly, got me annoyed.

I realise that this may show my age, but in the television series Camberwick Green and Trumpton, the local doctor was always at the end of a phone and if anyone rang up asking for a consultation or advice on a medical issue and couldn’t come to him, he would always say “There, there, don’t worry, I’ll be there shortly” and when arriving would speak to the patient in a polite and calm manner and take the time to assess the problem before delivering a solution. I believe that the way the NHS is being run, this is nothing more than a pipe dream when it should be a common occurrence and I know exactly where the blame can be laid. Jeremy Hunt MP (Con, Surrey South West). However, with only eight Liberal Democrat MP’s at Westminster (against a Conservative majority of 12) and now a sole Liberal Democrat Assembly member (which if I understand what BBC Wales are saying means that Kirsty cannot even ask a question at FMQ’s, doesn’t even have the right to materials and might as well not be there as far as the Assembly is concerned) I have come to the conclusion that the only way to campaign for an NHS fit for purpose is to be a member of a party that wants such an outcome.

Now, as you know I’m a right old electoral sadsack (psephlogist if you want the technical term for it) and know a large number of parties and organisations that deal with all manner of issues. For instance, in the 1997 general election, you had the Pro Life Alliance (who campaigned for the repeal of the 1967 Abortion Act), in 2001 the Christian People’s Alliance started up and in 2010, we saw the arrival of the English Democrats. As well as the Christian People’s Alliance in 2001, another party started up that created the shock of that election, the Kidderminster Hospital and Health Concern party, who from nowhere, gained Wyre Forest from Labour with a majority of 17,630 (36%). The party led by Dr. Richard Taylor, a consultation at Kidderminster Hospital, stood to challenge the Labour MP (who was Health Minister) about why he wanted to close the hospital and although the hospital did close, Dr. Taylor was re-elected in 2005 making him one of just three Independent or independent leaning MP’s at that election. Although he was defeated in 2010, it spawned a large number of similar candidates across the country with two others being elected. Jean Turner in Strathkelvin and Bearsden at the 2003 Scottish Parliament elections and Kieran Deeney in West Tyrone in the Northern Ireland Assembly elections of the same year. Out of this came the National Health Action Party (who appeared on the London ballot for the Euros in 2014) and who in 2015 may only have contested 13 seats but on average polled 3.58% in those seats (only fractionally behind the Greens). I have decided that because of the issues that my grandmother has faced, and how the NHS is critically underfunded, that my future lies with the National Health Action Party and therefore I am giving advance notice that I intend to stand down as a Liberal Democrat member on June 7th 2016. This is simply my reaction to the current situation and how I feel my grandmother is able to get the care she needs while she recovers from her operation

Another thing I have is a sense of honour, and indeed on all these online quizzes I do, it always comes back that I am as close to Phileas Fogg or a Musketeer as it is possible to be (with the slight exception that I do not believe I have a Byronic face and I have never handled a sword in my life), but because of that sense I will be writing to Denfa Morgan, our community council clerk, and inform him that I wish to make a personal statement at the end of the council meeting on June 7th, informing the community of my change of designation from Lib Dem to National Health Action and say that “When a member stands down as a community councillor, if ten people write in asking for a by-election, then one happens. I am therefore allowing the community of Llansantffraed the same opportunity. If ten electors write to the clerk and say that they wish to see me contest my seat in a by-election under my new party colours, then I shall give them that opportunity”

[Davıd Boothroyd]

David Lock wasn't Health Minister in 2001. He was Parliamentary Secretary to the Lord Chancellor's Department.

[carlton43]

May 16, 2016 12:04:32 GMT Harry Hayfield said:

As people have been asking, here is the resignation letter that will be read at the next meeting of the local executive for Ceredigion Lib Dems:

I never like to guess a person’s age (as more often than not, I am miles out) but I would hazard a guess that you do not personally remember the 1992 general election. That election, as I am sure you know, was the second occasion since 1885 that Ceredigion constituency did not elect a Liberal member as Geraint Howells (elected at the first election of 1974) was defeated by Cynog Dafis of Plaid Cymru on a 13% swing from Lib Dem to Plaid Cymru. I remember that election very well because I was so disappointed at the result, because Geraint helped my grandparents so much on numerous occasions between 1974 and 1992, that I joined the Liberal Democrats that summer with the intention of seeing a Liberal Democrat MP in Ceredigion again and seeing the Liberal Democrats enter government and when I spoke at a conference in Rhayader in 1993 I added that “Because this is a personal decision, only another personal decision is likely to reverse it”. Such a personal decision has been made.

When my grandmother was put onto the waiting list for a hip operation last March, I was fully aware that she would have to wait at least eighteen months. But wat I was not aware of was just how painful the condition was, and because of it, my grandmother opted out of the waiting list and had the operation done privately in Carmarthenshire, where they pumped her so full of morphine sulphate and codeine (drugs that her local doctor know knock her out completely) that when she was discharged five days after the operation, she was exceptionally sleepy and drowsy to such an extent that she didn’t know who I was and on one occasion said “Could you move to the left please? A vehicle is trying to pass by!” when I was wheeling her from her chair to her bed. When the district nurse came a few days later and did some tests, she advised that she be admitted to Bronglais due to a low sodium level and for the next four weeks (two in Bronglais and two in Tregaron) the NHS nursed her back to her normal alert self. Since then, she had a pain in her back below her shoulder blade and so asked me to phone the surgery in Aberaeron, but as they were closed I had to phone NHS Direct Wales where after answering forty-five minutes’ worth of questions about the inanest things, a doctor phoned back which is what she wanted to happen in the first place and this, quite frankly, got me annoyed.

I realise that this may show my age, but in the television series Camberwick Green and Trumpton, the local doctor was always at the end of a phone and if anyone rang up asking for a consultation or advice on a medical issue and couldn’t come to him, he would always say “There, there, don’t worry, I’ll be there shortly” and when arriving would speak to the patient in a polite and calm manner and take the time to assess the problem before delivering a solution. I believe that the way the NHS is being run, this is nothing more than a pipe dream when it should be a common occurrence and I know exactly where the blame can be laid. Jeremy Hunt MP (Con, Surrey South West). However, with only eight Liberal Democrat MP’s at Westminster (against a Conservative majority of 12) and now a sole Liberal Democrat Assembly member (which if I understand what BBC Wales are saying means that Kirsty cannot even ask a question at FMQ’s, doesn’t even have the right to materials and might as well not be there as far as the Assembly is concerned) I have come to the conclusion that the only way to campaign for an NHS fit for purpose is to be a member of a party that wants such an outcome.

Now, as you know I’m a right old electoral sadsack (psephlogist if you want the technical term for it) and know a large number of parties and organisations that deal with all manner of issues. For instance, in the 1997 general election, you had the Pro Life Alliance (who campaigned for the repeal of the 1967 Abortion Act), in 2001 the Christian People’s Alliance started up and in 2010, we saw the arrival of the English Democrats. As well as the Christian People’s Alliance in 2001, another party started up that created the shock of that election, the Kidderminster Hospital and Health Concern party, who from nowhere, gained Wyre Forest from Labour with a majority of 17,630 (36%). The party led by Dr. Richard Taylor, a consultation at Kidderminster Hospital, stood to challenge the Labour MP (who was Health Minister) about why he wanted to close the hospital and although the hospital did close, Dr. Taylor was re-elected in 2005 making him one of just three Independent or independent leaning MP’s at that election. Although he was defeated in 2010, it spawned a large number of similar candidates across the country with two others being elected. Jean Turner in Strathkelvin and Bearsden at the 2003 Scottish Parliament elections and Kieran Deeney in West Tyrone in the Northern Ireland Assembly elections of the same year. Out of this came the National Health Action Party (who appeared on the London ballot for the Euros in 2014) and who in 2015 may only have contested 13 seats but on average polled 3.58% in those seats (only fractionally behind the Greens). I have decided that because of the issues that my grandmother has faced, and how the NHS is critically underfunded, that my future lies with the National Health Action Party and therefore I am giving advance notice that I intend to stand down as a Liberal Democrat member on June 7th 2016. This is simply my reaction to the current situation and how I feel my grandmother is able to get the care she needs while she recovers from her operation

Another thing I have is a sense of honour, and indeed on all these online quizzes I do, it always comes back that I am as close to Phileas Fogg or a Musketeer as it is possible to be (with the slight exception that I do not believe I have a Byronic face and I have never handled a sword in my life), but because of that sense I will be writing to Denfa Morgan, our community council clerk, and inform him that I wish to make a personal statement at the end of the council meeting on June 7th, informing the community of my change of designation from Lib Dem to National Health Action and say that “When a member stands down as a community councillor, if ten people write in asking for a by-election, then one happens. I am therefore allowing the community of Llansantffraed the same opportunity. If ten electors write to the clerk and say that they wish to see me contest my seat in a by-election under my new party colours, then I shall give them that opportunity”

Important to you....today...certainly.   But to the meeting? Hardly at all. 

Solitary hard cases make bad law.....And a bad case for changing party and life. Do you really think an insignificant ginger group will have any effect let alone the effect of a major party?

Now, I read this expecting you to be joining Labour. Imagine the bathos and my, in a way, disappointment.

[mrhell]

Harry, I expect that no one will be reading out that letter.

It's only been tribal loyalty that has stopped me from pointing out you've been very erratic in certain postings here in recent months. I read in disbelief that your original threat on Lib Dem Voice to resign included permission for your comments on cannabis to by read out by someone during that specific debate at party conference. Frankly, it's all rather odd.

[neilm]

Yes, I also expected Harry to be joining Labour.

[Arthur Figgis]

I expected Harry to be on drugs, rather than against their legalisation.

[The Bishop]

Do I note a slight tinge of sarcasm there, perchance?

[neilm]

May 17, 2016 7:02:46 GMT @boogieeck said:

So, on thread topic, we have a case in point. Lib Dem thinks fellow Lib em is a bit odd. Which for a Lib Dem is like ArmchairCritic calling a fellow Conservative a wanker. Imagine then that within the Lib Dem room a conversation veers towards "what is this w***** on about now?" (there would be asterixes in the Lib Dem room) only for the focus of the question and its responses to join the LDs a week later.

Who's the new Lib Dem?

[Dan]

May 16, 2016 12:04:32 GMT Harry Hayfield said:

in the television series Camberwick Green and Trumpton, the local doctor was always at the end of a phone and if anyone rang up asking for a consultation or advice on a medical issue and couldn’t come to him, he would always say “There, there, don’t worry, I’ll be there shortly” and when arriving would speak to the patient in a polite and calm manner and take the time to assess the problem before delivering a solution. I believe that the way the NHS is being run, this is nothing more than a pipe dream when it should be a common occurrence and I know exactly where the blame can be laid. Jeremy Hunt MP (Con, Surrey South West).

Is this possibly the most bizarre thing ever posted? I assume it's the policy of the National Health Action Party to have an NHS modeled on a popular 1960s animated children's TV series?

[Richard Allen]

May 16, 2016 14:27:59 GMT @boogieeck said:

Does that invalidate the resignation? Or just allow the chairman to summarize the letter instead of reading it?

I would suggest that any Chairman who decided to read such a letter in full would quickly find that his meeting was lacking a quorum.

[andrewteale]

May 17, 2016 7:02:46 GMT @boogieeck said:

(there would be asterixes in the Lib Dem room)

[mrhell]

May 17, 2016 18:10:06 GMT Richard Allen said:

May 16, 2016 14:27:59 GMT @boogieeck said:

Does that invalidate the resignation? Or just allow the chairman to summarize the letter instead of reading it?

I would suggest that any Chairman who decided to read such a letter in full would quickly find that his meeting was lacking a quorum.

or a Chairman!

[Deleted]

I'm not sure if Kris will be able to add a National Health Action group to this forum to which Harry or other members could join. I recall him saying there wasn't enough room to add another group as ProBoards will only allow a limited number of them.
The fact that Kris has considerable sympathy with Mebyon Kernow will probably mean their group will remain, despite their sole member on this forum - andykernow - not having posted for about three years.

[Dan]

May 16, 2016 12:04:32 GMT Harry Hayfield said:

Another thing I have is a sense of honour, and indeed on all these online quizzes I do, it always comes back that I am as close to Phileas Fogg or a Musketeer as it is possible to be (with the slight exception that I do not believe I have a Byronic face and I have never handled a sword in my life), but because of that sense I will be writing to Denfa Morgan, our community council clerk, and inform him that I wish to make a personal statement at the end of the council meeting on June 7th, informing the community of my change of designation from Lib Dem to National Health Action.

For those interested in following the reaction of Llansantffraed Community Council to this bombshell can do so here.

[Arthur Figgis]

Minute 4.4 – up-date on locating bottle bank at Llansantffraed and receipt of correspondence on the matter

"There it is!"

"Next item!"

[iainbhx]

May 17, 2016 18:10:06 GMT Richard Allen said:

May 16, 2016 14:27:59 GMT @boogieeck said:

Does that invalidate the resignation? Or just allow the chairman to summarize the letter instead of reading it?

I would suggest that any Chairman who decided to read such a letter in full would quickly find that his meeting was lacking a quorum.

Sounds like a very good time for a fag break to me.

[gwynthegriff]

May 17, 2016 9:47:40 GMT ArmchairCritic said:

May 16, 2016 12:10:21 GMT Davıd Boothroyd said:

David Lock wasn't Health Minister in 2001. He was Parliamentary Secretary to the Lord Chancellor's Department.

But is the resignation valid or not? Or does Harry Hayfield need to recolour his name in yellow and write another letter.....with the correct circumstances surrounding his resignation included.

I mean, fancy not knowing that David Lock was Parliamentary Secretary to the Lord Chancellor's Department, at the material time. Its a wonder the LibDems don't boot him out on his ear.....never mind resignation

As my Parish Council Chairman would say: "This application is inadmissible as it is deficient in a material consideration".


Seriously, if I was the Clerk I would note Mr Hayfield's change of party affiliation. However, I would not co-operate in this "if ten electors" thing. I would say: "Mr Hayfield, you can resign from the Council ... or remain on the Council. If you resign the vacancy will be advertised in the usual way. It is not the role of the Clerk to facilitate grandstanding."

[gwynthegriff]

May 16, 2016 12:04:32 GMT Harry Hayfield said:

When my grandmother was put onto the waiting list for a hip operation last March, I was fully aware that she would have to wait at least eighteen months. But wat I was not aware of was just how painful the condition was, and because of it, my grandmother opted out of the waiting list and had the operation done privately in Carmarthenshire, where they pumped her so full of morphine sulphate and codeine (drugs that her local doctor know knock her out completely) that when she was discharged five days after the operation, she was exceptionally sleepy and drowsy to such an extent that she didn’t know who I was and on one occasion said “Could you move to the left please? A vehicle is trying to pass by!” when I was wheeling her from her chair to her bed. When the district nurse came a few days later and did some tests, she advised that she be admitted to Bronglais due to a low sodium level and for the next four weeks (two in Bronglais and two in Tregaron) the NHS nursed her back to her normal alert self. Since then, she had a pain in her back below her shoulder blade and so asked me to phone the surgery in Aberaeron, but as they were closed I had to phone NHS Direct Wales where after answering forty-five minutes’ worth of questions about the inanest things, a doctor phoned back which is what she wanted to happen in the first place and this, quite frankly, got me annoyed.

I realise that this may show my age, but in the television series Camberwick Green and Trumpton, the local doctor was always at the end of a phone and if anyone rang up asking for a consultation or advice on a medical issue and couldn’t come to him, he would always say “There, there, don’t worry, I’ll be there shortly” and when arriving would speak to the patient in a polite and calm manner and take the time to assess the problem before delivering a solution. I believe that the way the NHS is being run, this is nothing more than a pipe dream when it should be a common occurrence and I know exactly where the blame can be laid. Jeremy Hunt MP (Con, Surrey South West).
However, with only eight Liberal Democrat MP’s at Westminster (against a Conservative majority of 12) and now a sole Liberal Democrat Assembly member (which if I understand what BBC Wales are saying means that Kirsty cannot even ask a question at FMQ’s, doesn’t even have the right to materials and might as well not be there as far as the Assembly is concerned) I have come to the conclusion that the only way to campaign for an NHS fit for purpose is to be a member of a party that wants such an outcome.

Now, as you know I’m a right old electoral sadsack (psephlogist if you want the technical term for it) and know a large number of parties and organisations that deal with all manner of issues. For instance, in the 1997 general election, you had the Pro Life Alliance (who campaigned for the repeal of the 1967 Abortion Act), in 2001 the Christian People’s Alliance started up and in 2010, we saw the arrival of the English Democrats. As well as the Christian People’s Alliance in 2001, another party started up that created the shock of that election, the Kidderminster Hospital and Health Concern party, who from nowhere, gained Wyre Forest from Labour with a majority of 17,630 (36%). The party led by Dr. Richard Taylor, a consultation at Kidderminster Hospital, stood to challenge the Labour MP (who was Health Minister) about why he wanted to close the hospital and although the hospital did close, Dr. Taylor was re-elected in 2005 making him one of just three Independent or independent leaning MP’s at that election. Although he was defeated in 2010, it spawned a large number of similar candidates across the country with two others being elected. Jean Turner in Strathkelvin and Bearsden at the 2003 Scottish Parliament elections and Kieran Deeney in West Tyrone in the Northern Ireland Assembly elections of the same year. Out of this came the National Health Action Party (who appeared on the London ballot for the Euros in 2014) and who in 2015 may only have contested 13 seats but on average polled 3.58% in those seats (only fractionally behind the Greens). I have decided that because of the issues that my grandmother has faced, and how the NHS is critically underfunded, that my future lies with the National Health Action Party and therefore I am giving advance notice that I intend to stand down as a Liberal Democrat member on June 7th 2016. This is simply my reaction to the current situation and how I feel my grandmother is able to get the care she needs while she recovers from her operation

Harry,

I invite you to ponder the highlighted sections.

Who were the "they" who medicated your grandmother inappropriately? Presumably the medics - the very group at the heart of the NHAP.

If you think the move from "family doctor" to "general practitioner" only occurred under Hunt then you're hallucinating.

Isn't 8 MPs and 1 AM eight and one respectively more than the NHAP?

"Although the hospital did close" - a phrase which may illustrate the effectiveness of electing the NHAP.

3.58% ?

Your grandmother needs your direct advocacy more than she needs the NHAP (or any other politics at present).

I speak from experience - my mother suffered weeks of poor hospital care in her final months. Some may have been a result of underfunding; much was the result of incompetence and poor practice.

[neilm]

The NHAP executive seems to have more than a few members who hold or have held roles in the BMA. This alone makes me suspicious of them.