neilm
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Post by neilm on Jun 17, 2016 11:23:48 GMT
I didn't see much evidence of campaigning in La Linea last week. It was fairly quiet at the border as well, leading me to assume that the PP had ordered the Guardia Civil to tone it down in order to avoid upsetting the voters they have left around there.
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Jun 17, 2016 11:27:20 GMT
Been out and about in Granada and surrounding villages today. In Granada saw two stalls - one UPyD and one PP. The PP one featured the Cabinet's finance minister. Attempted to ask the minister why the Spanish government is threatening the UK over Brexit but was brushed off. Later heard a PSOE loudspeaker van in Granada. Went through three villages near Granada - all three had PSOE posters strung across town-centre roads. Saw a poster for the Animal Rights Party and also a handful for Podemos/IU UPyD?!? Why have those hasbeens not folded into C's? They speak to a small but vocal segment who don't like the current statutes of autonomy, preferring Spain to be a federal state. There's enough of those to give them a couple of MEPs. |
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Post by bolbridge on Jun 18, 2016 18:05:44 GMT
UPyD?!? Why have those hasbeens not folded into C's? They speak to a small but vocal segment who don't like the current statutes of autonomy, preferring Spain to be a federal state. There's enough of those to give them a couple of MEPs. That was in 2014 before C's had properly broken onto the national scene. |
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Jun 19, 2016 8:13:20 GMT
They speak to a small but vocal segment who don't like the current statutes of autonomy, preferring Spain to be a federal state. There's enough of those to give them a couple of MEPs. That was in 2014 before C's had properly broken onto the national scene. But the Cs want to maintain the various statutes of autonomy- which is rather a silly stance given their position on broader European federalism. It does raise hackles that some communities have more more power than others. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jun 19, 2016 10:03:08 GMT
Good old Catalan independence. If you find a Nat or Lefty of the clueless type who thinks it's about building some kind of social democratic paradise, it's fun to show them just how right-wing the arguments the Catalans use are.
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Post by Merseymike on Jun 19, 2016 10:55:57 GMT
Good old Catalan independence. If you find a Nat or Lefty of the clueless type who thinks it's about building some kind of social democratic paradise, it's fun to show them just how right-wing the arguments the Catalans use are. But them the pro Catalan independence movement has always been led from the centre right. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2016 11:31:45 GMT
Good old Catalan independence. If you find a Nat or Lefty of the clueless type who thinks it's about building some kind of social democratic paradise, it's fun to show them just how right-wing the arguments the Catalans use are. They do have a left-nationalist tradition as well, its just not the dominant. The Catalans are a separate nation by any reasonable measure and have every right to be unwilling to bankroll the rest of Spain, and to run their own immigration policies. Spain is a mess and an independent Catalonia would likely do significantly better. |
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 12,012
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Post by Khunanup on Jun 19, 2016 13:56:33 GMT
That was in 2014 before C's had properly broken onto the national scene. But the Cs want to maintain the various statutes of autonomy- which is rather a silly stance given their position on broader European federalism. It does raise hackles that some communities have more more power than others. What's the contridiction? I don't know what Cs stance is. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2016 13:57:45 GMT
But the Cs want to maintain the various statutes of autonomy- which is rather a silly stance given their position on broader European federalism. It does raise hackles that some communities have more more power than others. What's the contridiction? I don't know what Cs stance is. Pro-federalist in Europe, "autonomist" in Spain. |
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 12,012
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Post by Khunanup on Jun 19, 2016 14:09:19 GMT
What's the contridiction? I don't know what Cs stance is. Pro-federalist in Europe, "autonomist" in Spain. Yeah, not seeing the contridiction there. Most federalists I know, and I know a few, are wedded to the idea of subsidiarity which makes being pro autonomy perfectly reasonable. I'm a huge fan of subsidiarity. |
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Jun 19, 2016 14:39:56 GMT
Pro-federalist in Europe, "autonomist" in Spain. Yeah, not seeing the contridiction there. Most federalists I know, and I know a few, are wedded to the idea of subsidiarity which makes being pro autonomy perfectly reasonable. I'm a huge fan of subsidiarity. Certain regions have more powers than others. It causes a lot of annoyance. C's are OK with that whereas UPyD want actual federalism: Spain isn't federal despite what a lot of people think, it's just a highly devolved unitary state. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jun 19, 2016 15:50:27 GMT
Good old Catalan independence. If you find a Nat or Lefty of the clueless type who thinks it's about building some kind of social democratic paradise, it's fun to show them just how right-wing the arguments the Catalans use are. But them the pro Catalan independence movement has always been led from the centre right. You know that, I know that...but at the Scottish referendum the usual suspects seemed clueless about it. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jun 19, 2016 15:51:44 GMT
Pro-federalist in Europe, "autonomist" in Spain. Yeah, not seeing the contridiction there. Most federalists I know, and I know a few, are wedded to the idea of subsidiarity which makes being pro autonomy perfectly reasonable. I'm a huge fan of subsidiarity. When done properly. The Walloon example, both now and fifty years ago, is definitely not to be followed! |
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Post by Merseymike on Jun 19, 2016 17:51:49 GMT
It's also largely rural....Barcelona is a left wing city and that must have meant a sizeable centre right majority in the countryside. Which often isn't the case elsewhere in Spain
Mind you they are very much Christian Democrat centre right - which is one reason as well as history why they won't work with the PP.
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 12,012
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Post by Khunanup on Jun 19, 2016 17:54:03 GMT
Yeah, not seeing the contridiction there. Most federalists I know, and I know a few, are wedded to the idea of subsidiarity which makes being pro autonomy perfectly reasonable. I'm a huge fan of subsidiarity. Certain regions have more powers than others. It causes a lot of annoyance. C's are OK with that whereas UPyD want actual federalism: Spain isn't federal despite what a lot of people think, it's just a highly devolved unitary state. Are they anti more autonomy for the other regions that have little though or are they up for that and happy for the autonomy to be uneven? You can have a federal state where there is uneven competency between the constituent parts. Ideally that wouldn't be the case but sometimes it's desirable (especially when there's minority languages involved and other special considerations). |
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Post by Merseymike on Jun 19, 2016 18:03:26 GMT
Sounds like the dogs dinner we currently have in terms of local and regional governance
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jun 20, 2016 15:36:03 GMT
Owen Jones is visiting the city where my sister lives on Wednesday to address a Unidos Podemos rally - she will be attending  Oh dear. My deepest sympathy! Unless she asks him how Venezuela has developed a sugar cane shortage. |
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Jun 20, 2016 16:10:10 GMT
Certain regions have more powers than others. It causes a lot of annoyance. C's are OK with that whereas UPyD want actual federalism: Spain isn't federal despite what a lot of people think, it's just a highly devolved unitary state. Are they anti more autonomy for the other regions that have little though or are they up for that and happy for the autonomy to be uneven? You can have a federal state where there is uneven competency between the constituent parts. Ideally that wouldn't be the case but sometimes it's desirable (especially when there's minority languages involved and other special considerations). AFAIK, they want equal powers for each community on the Catalan/Basque model in a federal model. At least there's an argument for Catalonia and the Basque Country to have more autonomy than the rest. There isn't really for Andalucia: if you ask someone you'll get a load of guff about Blas Infante rather than a proper answer. |
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Jun 22, 2016 23:37:34 GMT
Jorge Fernandez Diaz, the interior minister, is in hot water after allegedly suggesting to the head of the local anti fraud team that Catalan politicians could be smeared: link in Spanish Given the amount of dubious cash washing around in the PP he's on dodgy ground if this turns out to be true. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2016 18:01:38 GMT
Exit polls:
PP 117-121
Podemos at 91-95 seats
PSOE 81-85
C 26-30
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