Crimson King
Lib Dem
Be nice to each other and sing in tune
Posts: 9,846 
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Post by Crimson King on Aug 9, 2016 9:58:09 GMT
It's days like these you long for the happy days of the sage of Walsall and his (relatively) rational approach to debate
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Richard Allen
Banned
Four time loser in VUKPOTY finals
Posts: 19,052
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Post by Richard Allen on Aug 9, 2016 12:02:34 GMT
@pjones talking to himself is the perfect metaphor for the Trump campaign which continues to talk only to those who are going to vote for him while ignoring the people that he needs to win over. Of course you prefer Paul Ryan's genius plan of giving amnesty to millions of Hispanic non-whites who will never under any circumstances vote Republican. I prefer a strategy of trying to appeal to voters on matters of political principle and policy rather than ethnicity. The GOP can win the votes of many Hispanic non-whites and have done so in the past. Given that this portion of the electorate is only going in one direction it is the height of stupidity for the GOP to be so overtly offensive towards them. Your dream of the GOP being able to win by consolidating the white vote is a pathetic fantasy because most people don't vote on the basis of ethnicity. Your approach will lead the GOP into a demographic cul-de-sac. |
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Post by Arthur Figgis on Aug 9, 2016 12:05:33 GMT
It's days like these you long for the happy days of the sage of Walsall and his (relatively) rational approach to debate I thought he was back this morning- there were pages upon pages of repetitive illegible drivel. Turned out to be a Korean spammer. |
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 15,800
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Post by john07 on Aug 9, 2016 12:43:07 GMT
Would you please, please, please stop repeating yourself. You have posted your evidence. It has convinced a grand total of zero people. Could we move on please? Ta. Also stop quoting him. I have him on block and only gets to see his conspiracy theory rubbish, backed up by other practitioners of that art, when quoted. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2016 12:53:18 GMT
Both the Canadian Conservatives and Australian Liberals are doing fine with ethnic minorities. It should be possible for the GOP to replicated that, but it would require distancing itself from certain groups in its current coalition (fx in addition to outright racists that includes things like ditching all anti-science/anti-intellectual positions, which are unpopular with ethnic minorities seeing education as a route to social mobility). Plus recognizing that perceiving the federal government as an enemy alienates non-whites, even those who prefer low taxes and are disgruntled about bureaucracy. "Hysterical" religious fundamentalists also needs to be weeded out. All this is difficult to do because American parties aren't membership based, but they probably need some mechanism to exclude certain people from running as Republicans.
The litmus test should be to get a majority of the (generally socially and economically conservative) Asians to vote GOP. If the party isn't "sane" enough to attract a majority of Asians it needs further reforms as their social and economic status + general attitudes make most of them natural centre-right voters.
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Richard Allen
Banned
Four time loser in VUKPOTY finals
Posts: 19,052
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Post by Richard Allen on Aug 9, 2016 13:04:47 GMT
No it hasn't. The only Hispanic group by national origin that has voted majority Republican has been Cuban Americans, who are overwhelmingly white. About half of Hispanic Americans identify as white hispanics. These will mostly be Criollos and Castizos of mainly european ancestry. Mestizo Americans have always voted overwhelmingly for the Democrats and always will. They might not be able to get a majority but they can get enough to give them a chance to win without having to get an unrealistically high percentage of the white vote. Also George Bush could not have got 40%+ of the Hispanic vote in 2004 without the votes of a decent chuck of those with Mexican and other Central American ancestry. |
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Richard Allen
Banned
Four time loser in VUKPOTY finals
Posts: 19,052
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Post by Richard Allen on Aug 9, 2016 13:06:10 GMT
The litmus test should be to get a majority of the (generally socially and economically conservative) Asians to vote GOP. If the party isn't "sane" enough to attract a majority of Asians it needs further reforms as their social and economic status + general attitudes make most of them natural centre-right voters. Quite so. Asians used to vote heavily for the GOP, now they go heavily for the Democrats. |
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Richard Allen
Banned
Four time loser in VUKPOTY finals
Posts: 19,052
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Post by Richard Allen on Aug 9, 2016 15:17:15 GMT
Quite so. Asians used to vote heavily for the GOP, now they go heavily for the Democrats. The number of Asian Americans increased about five fold between the 1980 and 2010 censuses and it continues to increase. The demographic mix and context of asian American voters will therefore have changed massively over that period so without ethnic sub population breakdowns that statistic is fairly meaningless. You only have to go back to 1996 for when the Asian's last went for the GOP nominee and since then the Demographic mix hasn't changed all that much with Chinese, Filipino and Indian are still the 3 biggest groups followed by Vietnamese, Koreans and Japanese. For obvious reasons Vietnamese are a relatively strong for the GOP but none of the other 5 should be overly hostile to the GOP. With the exceptions of Koreans they all have above average income and as @odo pointed out tend to be fairly conservative in their outlook. |
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Richard Allen
Banned
Four time loser in VUKPOTY finals
Posts: 19,052
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Post by Richard Allen on Aug 9, 2016 15:44:21 GMT
For obvious reasons Vietnamese are a relatively strong for the GOP but none of the other 5 should be overly hostile to the GOP. With the exceptions of Koreans they all have above average income and as @odo pointed out tend to be fairly conservative in their outlook. Having an above average income doesn't make a group naturally right wing. And I didn't say that it did, merely that there is no real reason why Asian Americans should not be comfortable voting for a centre right party just as they majority of them once did. There is only one way out this demographic death spiral for the GOP and that is stop alienating the vast majority of the non-white electorate. |
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iain
Lib Dem
Posts: 11,438
Member is Online
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Post by iain on Aug 9, 2016 15:54:54 GMT
For obvious reasons Vietnamese are a relatively strong for the GOP but none of the other 5 should be overly hostile to the GOP. With the exceptions of Koreans they all have above average income and as @odo pointed out tend to be fairly conservative in their outlook. Having an above average income doesn't make a group naturally right wing. Jewish people in New York will have much higher average incomes than white Christians living in West Virginia but will tend to be much more left wing. Likewise Jewish people living in London in comparison to white people living on the South Essex coast (I know there are lots of differences between South Essex and West virginia but you get the general point I'm trying to make). In the UK and the US the high status opinions to hold are centre left (i.e. The Democrats in the US, Blairism/Cameroonism in the UK) so those will be the opinions more attractive to people of higher social status to espouse. The thing is though that it generally does. In Britain minorities tend to vote Labour for historical reasons (Labour introducing equalities legislation) but this should fade with time. In the US minorities skew to the left due to the hostility of the GOP. The GOP don't need to off we an amnesty to win significant numbers of Latinos - not calling them rapists would be a start. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Aug 9, 2016 16:12:09 GMT
In the UK and the US the high status opinions to hold are centre left (i.e. The Democrats in the US, Blairism/Cameroonism in the UK) so those will be the opinions more attractive to people of higher social status to espouse. Eh? People of "higher social status" round here tend to be of the right. |
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Post by mrhell on Aug 9, 2016 16:26:13 GMT
I can't remember whether this video has been linked to here before
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2016 19:51:14 GMT
The more things change, the more they stay the same...  |
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Post by finsobruce on Aug 9, 2016 19:57:02 GMT
The more things change, the more they stay the same... "Admit Utah! Democratic Mormon". "British Labourers to dredge New York Harbour" Ah, the whirligig of time. What a terrific piece of political memorabilia. |
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Post by dizz on Aug 9, 2016 20:32:06 GMT
If I could request that you don't try to start a flame war with me by insulting me. In the spirit of the changes recently made to this forum I would like to avoid that kind of thing, thank you. Thanks for keeping my post in.  |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Aug 9, 2016 20:51:01 GMT
Possibly one for Richard Allen but please all feel free to jump in. Which states have a sizeable Mormon electorate other than Utah? I make it Arizona, Idaho, Nevada and Wyoming. |
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Post by finsobruce on Aug 9, 2016 20:55:43 GMT
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2016 20:58:31 GMT
Possibly one for Richard Allen but please all feel free to jump in. Which states have a sizeable Mormon electorate other than Utah? I make it Arizona, Idaho, Nevada and Wyoming. 1. Utah — 55 percent Total Church Membership: 2,000,554 Missions: 9 (There are now 10 missions in Utah with the addition of the Orem Utah Mission.) Congregations: 4,971 Temples: 16 dedicated, 1 under construction 2. Idaho — 19 percent Total Church Membership: 430,757 Missions: 4 Congregations: 1,117 Temples: 4 3. Wyoming — 9 percent Total Church Membership: 67,199 Missions: 1 (As of January 2015) Congregations: 157 Temples: 0 dedicated, 1 under construction 4. Arizona — 5 percent Total Church Membership:416,192 Missions: 6 Congregations: 844 Temples: 5 5. Alaska — 5 percent Total Church Membership: 33,375 Missions: 1 Congregations: 86 Temples: 1 6. Nevada — 4 percent Total Church Membership: 182,072 Missions: 3 Congregations: 330 Temples: 2 7. Oregon — 4 percent Total Church Membership: 153,226 Missions: 3 Congregations: 306 Temples: 2 8. Montana — 4 percent Total Church Membership: 48,968 Missions: 1 Congregations: 123 Temples: 1 9. Hawaii — 3 percent Total Church Membership: 73,660 Missions: 1 Congregations: 138 Temples: 2 10. Washington — 3 percent Total Church Membership: 282,356 Missions: 7 Congregations: 549 Temples: 3 |
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Post by AdminSTB on Aug 9, 2016 21:03:30 GMT
If I could request that you don't try to start a flame war with me by insulting me. In the spirit of the changes recently made to this forum I would like to avoid that kind of thing, thank you. I have removed the offending post. dizz, and anyone else for that matter, I appreciate that @pjones is - shall we say - outspoken on a forum that according to my thread poll is overwhelmingly backing Clinton. But if you don't like his style of posting, you're not obliged to take any notice of it, nor react in a way that obliges me to take action. |
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 15,800
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Post by john07 on Aug 9, 2016 21:12:17 GMT
In the UK and the US the high status opinions to hold are centre left (i.e. The Democrats in the US, Blairism/Cameroonism in the UK) so those will be the opinions more attractive to people of higher social status to espouse. Eh? People of "higher social status" round here tend to be of the right. Not by @pjones's criterion! |
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