Trivia

[Davıd Boothroyd]

Jun 20, 2016 17:05:48 GMT neilm said:

Didn't Clark opt to take a cabinet position for a year rather than a junior post for the whole of Blair's first term?

Yes, but it wasn't a foolish decision. He took the job of preparing the Freedom of Information legislation and forced through a White Paper with a very strong system (as it turned out, much stronger and more open than intended). Remember what Tony Blair said in his memoirs. So yes only one year in Cabinet but it was a very effective year.

[johnloony]

It took 14 years for the Labour Party to double its MPs from 209 in 1983 to 418 in 1997.
It took 18 years for the Conservative Party to double its MPs from 165 in 1997 to 330 in 2015.

[hullenedge]

Somewhat topical in a roundabout way. Room 13!

Came across this in the local press, 1932:-

www.dropbox.com/s/jhnwbnw5iimsxen/Room%2013%20i.jpg?dl=0
www.dropbox.com/s/nqsqyt49hpdgjw7/Room%2013%20ii.jpg?dl=0
www.dropbox.com/s/he3s30r3v6eu313/Room%2013%20iii.jpg?dl=0

Mr Buxton, former MP for Elland, occupied Room 13 on behalf of the Labour Party however the ILP took possession of the room. The contents were dumped in another room. George Lansbury made representations to the Speaker, who ruled that the room should return to the official Opposition. The ILP argued that it wasn't right that a defeated MP should occupy this prestige room. Quite a stink, letters to The Times etc. Anyway Buxton and his many books were returned to the room.

(He contested Elland again in 1935 and was defeated again by Thomas Levy. He took this defeat very badly and cried during the declaration).

[hullenedge]

May have been mentioned on an old thread but...

Super Boroughs...there was a serious proposal in the mid-1980s to amalgamate the existing London boroughs into five super boroughs. The suggested scheme:-

"Betjeman" – Brent, Ealing, Hammersmith & Fulham, Harrow, Hillingdon, Hounslow, Kensington & Chelsea
"Chaucer" – Bexley, Bromley, Greenwich, Lewisham, Southwark
"Greater Westminster" – Barnet, Camden, Enfield, Haringey, Islington, Westminster
"Surrey River" – Croydon, Kingston, Lambeth, Merton, Richmond, Sutton, Wandsworth
"Whittington" – Barking & Dagenham, City, Hackney, Havering, Newham, Redbridge, Tower Hamlets, Waltham Forest

The names may not appeal but the thinking was 'less is more' (60-ish councillors per super borough and a more concentrated pool of talent?) and hence provide effective local government once the GLC was abolished. It was a non-starter.

Four of these super boroughs would be Labour controlled if existing today. Surrey River probably hung.

[The Bishop]

I at least have never seen that one before - utterly dreadful idea in all respects.

[neilm]

Didn't Ken Livingstone favour that approach?

[The Bishop]

Wouldn't totally surprise me, he had foibles like that.

[Arthur Figgis]

Though he would've named them 'Hitler', 'Hitler', 'Hitler', 'Hitler', and 'Hitler'.

[finsobruce]

Aug 1, 2016 17:56:29 GMT hullenedge said:

May have been mentioned on an old thread but...

Super Boroughs...there was a serious proposal in the mid-1980s to amalgamate the existing London boroughs into five super boroughs. The suggested scheme:-

"Betjeman" – Brent, Ealing, Hammersmith & Fulham, Harrow, Hillingdon, Hounslow, Kensington & Chelsea
"Chaucer" – Bexley, Bromley, Greenwich, Lewisham, Southwark
"Greater Westminster" – Barnet, Camden, Enfield, Haringey, Islington, Westminster
"Surrey River" – Croydon, Kingston, Lambeth, Merton, Richmond, Sutton, Wandsworth
"Whittington" – Barking & Dagenham, City, Hackney, Havering, Newham, Redbridge, Tower Hamlets, Waltham Forest

The names may not appeal but the thinking was 'less is more' (60-ish councillors per super borough and a more concentrated pool of talent?) and hence provide effective local government once the GLC was abolished. It was a non-starter.

Four of these super boroughs would be Labour controlled if existing today. Surrey River probably hung.

This one passed me by I must admit. Whose idea was it?

[finsobruce]

Aug 1, 2016 18:55:48 GMT neilm said:

Didn't Ken Livingstone favour that approach?

I've just had a quick look and he suggested something similar in 2003, but the rest of the story is behind the LGC paywall.

[Davıd Boothroyd]

Aug 1, 2016 19:46:11 GMT finsobruce said:

Aug 1, 2016 18:55:48 GMT neilm said:

Didn't Ken Livingstone favour that approach?

I've just had a quick look and he suggested something similar in 2003, but the rest of the story is behind the LGC paywall.

All you need to know is that it went down like the proverbial cup of cold sick.

[hullenedge]

Prof Ken Young, 1984 report and Economist, 1986 article. A few snippets:-

www.dropbox.com/sh/6ai213s20nz9tyu/AAA1d1wKpGKImzdRQvbHfoa4a?dl=0

I stand corrected - Prof Young recommended 99 councillors for each super borough (33 three-member wards and annual elections).

[neilm]

By thirds with no fallow year? That would have been fun.

[hullenedge]

Some proposals for 'new' Welsh counties (1947 to 1967) from Banks' Federal Britain:-

www.dropbox.com/sh/i7qggseqehl2ftc/AACcLkdMZfumOijju-9zPWUia?dl=0

[greenhert]

Mar 30, 2016 18:05:53 GMT hullenedge said:

An election forecast for February 1974...that was somewhat wide of the mark. Major E. Lenox Figgis, writer of gambling/probability books, published his forecast in the Daily Express. He claimed a near perfect prediction for 1955/1959/1964 & 1970 although he admitted underestimating Labour by 15 seats in 1966.

The Figgis forecast for 1974 - CON 304, LAB 266, LIB 50 and Others 15. Boundary changes to have increased the Tory majority from 30 to 75!

Maj. Figgis based his forecast upon a Liberal surge (by-election wins and v.good local election results) and a 1% swing from Con to Lab.

Seats to change hands - The Libs would retain their by-election gains (Berwick, Ely, Rochdale, Ripon, Sutton) and gain 29 Con seats - Aberdeenshire W, Bodmin, Carshalton, Cheadle, Cheltenham, Chingford, Chippenham, Devon W, Dorset N, Eastbourne, Enfield N, Essex SE, Hazel Grove, Hemel Hempstead, High Peak, Liverpool Wavertree, Manchester Moss Side and Withington, Nantwich, Orpington, Richmond, Ross & Cromarty, St. Ives, Scarborough, Southend East and West, Truro, Wallasey, Westmorland and ten Lab seats - Caithness & Sutherland, Cardigan, Chester le Street, Colne Valley, Huddersfield W, Liverpool Edge Hill/Kirkdale/Toxteth/West Derby, Greenock & Port Glasgow.

SNP gains from Con - Aberdeenshire E, Argyll; gains from Lab - Hamilton, West Lothian and retain Glasgow Govan (gained at by-election).

PC gain from Con - Pembrokeshire; gains from Lab - Caernarvon, Camarthen, Merionethshire.

Other wins being - Fermanagh, Mid-Ulster, Belfast W, Western Isles, Wirral and Lincoln.

No mention of possible Con/Lab changes.

I have yet to find a Figgis forecast for October 1974.

Although many of his predictions were wrong for the year 1974, many others rang true much later on, and some could have (although he seemed to have forgotten that the boundary changes that moved Harpenden out of Hemel Hempstead had removed key areas of Liberal strength from that constituency and moved them to St Albans, for a start).

[hullenedge]

Major Figgis wrote in the Daily Express, after one correspondent had asked him to account for his lamentable forecast, admitting that he had underestimated the swing to Labour and the uneven distribution of the Liberal vote.

[neilm]

Challenge to Chance by Figgis is a well regarded text.

[hullenedge]

Some more forecasts (not Major Figgis). These appeared in the Halifax Courier on election day in 1924 with the proviso 'naturally made with some reserve, in view of the last moment change in the situation, but they represent the views of men who have been in close touch with the developments of the campaign of the three parties'.

CON estimate - Con 311, Lab 205, Lib 93, Others 6
LAB estimate - Con 290, Lab 235, Lib 85, Others 5
LIB estimate - Con 291, Lab 195, Lib 124, Others 5

Somewhat off the mark.

[greenhert]

MPs forced out by boundary changes (February 1974)

Ivor Richard (Labour, Barons Court; fought contest against Independent Labour MP Eddie Milne in Blyth and lost)
William Hilton (Labour, Bethnal Green)

William Peel (Conservative, Leicester South East; most of his seat was merged with Leicester South West to become Leicester South and knowing he would likely lose the ensuing selection battle, retired)

Sir Eric Bullus (Conservative, Wembley North; lost selection for Brent North to Rhodes Boyson)

Sir Ronald Russell (Conservative, Wembley South; see above)
Nicholas Scott (Conservative, Paddington South; fought contest against Paddington North's Labour MP Arthur Latham in Paddington and lost; he later returned as MP for Chelsea)
Michael Barnes (Labour, Brentford & Chiswick; fought contest against Heston & Isleworth's Conservative MP Barney Hayhoe in Brentford & Isleworth and lost)
Frank Marsden (Labour, Liverpool Scotland; lost selection for Liverpool Scotland Exchange to Liverpool Exchange's MP, Robert Parry)
Frank Taylor (Conservative, Manchester Moss Side; this constituency had parts of Manchester Exchange added to it, meaning that Frank Taylor lost to Manchester Exchange's Labour MP, Frank Hatton)
Doris Fisher (Labour, Birmingham Ladywood; lost selection contest to Birmingham All Saints' Labour MP, Brian Walden)

David Reed (Labour, Sedgefield)

James Bennett (Labour, Glasgow Bridgeton)

Dick Leonard (Labour, Romford; Romford became notionally Conservative as a result of 1974's boundary changes and Mr Leonard failed to be selected in neighbouring seats)
Elfed Davies (Labour, Rhondda East)
Carol Johnson (Labour, Lewisham South)

[greenhert]

MPs forced out by boundary changes (1983)

David Myles (Conservative, Banffshire; tried to win Orkney & Shetland from the Liberals but lost to their candidate, James Wallace)
John Tilley (Labour, Lambeth Central; fought against Liberal MP Simon Hughes in Bermondsey and lost)
Neil Carmichael (Labour, Glasgow Kelvingrove; fought against SDP MP Roy Jenkins in Glasgow Hillhead and lost)
George Morton (Labour, Manchester Moss Side)
Charles Morris (Labour, Manchester Openshaw)

Stanley Clinton-Davis (Labour, Hackney Central)
Helen McElhone (Labour, Glasgow Queen's Park; she had won that seat in a by-election less than a year previously)
John Horam (SDP, Gateshead West; fought Newcastle-upon-Tyne Central and lost; he returned as Conservative MP for Orpington nine years later)
Jeffrey Thomas (SDP, Abertillery; fought Cardiff West and lost)
John Roper (SDP, Farnworth; fought Worsley and lost)
Richard Crawshaw (SDP, Liverpool Toxteth; fought Liverpool Broadgreen and lost)
Ray Mawby (Conservative, Totnes)

Keith Stainton (Conservative, Sudbury & Woodbridge)

William Rees-Davies (Conservative, Thanet West)
Jock Bruce-Gardyne (Conservative, Knutsford)
Sheila Faith (Conservative, Belper; much of her seat became the notionally Labour South Derbyshire and therefore she tried to migrate to a safe seat; she failed. Ironically South Derbyshire was convincingly won by the Conservatives that year, and by another woman, Edwina Currie)
Joel Barnett (Labour, Heywood & Royton)
Sheila Wright (Labour, Birmingham Handsworth)
Thomas Benyon (Conservative, Abingdon)
Michael Brotherton (Conservative, Louth)
Geraint Morgan (Conservative, Denbigh)
Michael O'Halloran (Independent Labour, Islington North; he initially joined the SDP but when the selection contest came for the new version of Islington North, he lost it to John Grant, then MP for Islington Central and subsequently resigned from the SDP; he tried and failed to rejoin Labour afterwards)

Michael English (Labour, Nottingham West)
David Watkins (Labour, Consett)
Andrew McMahon (Labour, Glasgow Govan)
Dr Edmund Marshall (Labour, Goole)
Albert Stallard (Labour, St Pancras North)

Reg Race (Labour, Wood Green).

As a result of boundary changes, Les Huckfield tried to migrate from Nuneaton, believing his changed seat would fall to the Conservatives in 1983 (which is what happened), and find a much safer seat. He lost both the selections for Wigan and Sedgefield and thus stood down.