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Post by Devil Wincarnate on May 23, 2016 21:23:50 GMT
Gutted for Austria and the FPO, but the big prize is winning the legislative election. No surprise, then, to see a Tory supporting the nazis  That is, to say the least, a total and utter misreading of who the FPOe are, why they exist, and the entire political history of the Zweite Republik. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on May 23, 2016 21:25:26 GMT
One for Georg.
"Oesterreich ist kein Staat, sondern eine Religion".
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on May 23, 2016 21:27:06 GMT
No surprise, then, to see a Tory supporting the nazis The problem with polarising politics into hard-left vs hard-right is that it forces ordinary and otherwise fairly moderate people to choose an extreme. And they might not choose your extreme. That's why it's a bad thing. What is astonishing is that nearly 50% of Austrian voters have voted for the hard-right. That's almost unheard of in any two horse race. Once you are happy to do it once, you'll be happy to do it again. |
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on May 23, 2016 22:13:31 GMT
No surprise, then, to see a Tory supporting the nazis I have very little time for the FPO but they most certainly are not Nazis or even remotely comparable to them. They undoubtedly include some elements of pan-Germany nationalism - and relate to the nationalist right irrespective of how they market themselves |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on May 23, 2016 22:19:51 GMT
I have very little time for the FPO but they most certainly are not Nazis or even remotely comparable to them. They undoubtedly include some elements of pan-Germany nationalism - and relate to the nationalist right irrespective of how they market themselves Pan-Germanism is dead as a viable concept in any party. By rights NEOS should also have pan-Germanists, I don't believe it does. The original proponents of pan-Germanism in Austria were, somewhat surprisingly to most, the SPOe, and it survived as a current in that party for an awfully long time. |
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Post by Merseymike on May 23, 2016 22:25:42 GMT
You tolerate the nationalist far right much more than I ever could......to me their essential philosophy and outlook is unacceptable.
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Post by johnloony on May 24, 2016 0:49:59 GMT
One for Georg. "Oesterreich ist kein Staat, sondern eine Religion". "Shqipëria nuk është një shtet i tre milionësh, por një komb i gjashtë milionësh" |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on May 24, 2016 6:43:19 GMT
You tolerate the nationalist far right much more than I ever could......to me their essential philosophy and outlook is unacceptable. Probably not unfair in an Austrian context as I don't tend to make a habit of liking parties like the FPOe. In the Austrian context I'm willing to cut them some slack because, as unlikely as it sounds anywhere this side of Vorarlberg, they have been a catch-all for decades for lots of people rejected, spat out or unwilling to kowtow to the Proporz state and its whiff of democratically-elected totalitarianism. |
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Post by mrpastelito on May 24, 2016 8:42:40 GMT
Imo the really shocking fact is that 100% of votes went to socialist candidates.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on May 24, 2016 9:05:27 GMT
Troll.
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Post by mrpastelito on May 24, 2016 9:48:16 GMT
FTFY  Seriously, if you study the FPO's economic policies they're actually rather left wing just as the FN in France - and that's a major difference to the SVP in Switzerland for example. The FPO want a strong welfare state, even arguing you could secure the viability of the current system by restricting access to Austrians. What's not socialist about that? It's national socialism (as opposed to international socialism) for sure, but still socialism. |
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on May 24, 2016 10:10:48 GMT
You tolerate the nationalist far right much more than I ever could......to me their essential philosophy and outlook is unacceptable. Probably not unfair in an Austrian context as I don't tend to make a habit of liking parties like the FPOe. In the Austrian context I'm willing to cut them some slack because, as unlikely as it sounds anywhere this side of Vorarlberg, they have been a catch-all for decades for lots of people rejected, spat out or unwilling to kowtow to the Proporz state and its whiff of democratically-elected totalitarianism. The almost permanent arrangements between the two established parties doesn't exactly offer anything in the way of choice. I agree with that. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on May 24, 2016 10:21:17 GMT
Probably not unfair in an Austrian context as I don't tend to make a habit of liking parties like the FPOe. In the Austrian context I'm willing to cut them some slack because, as unlikely as it sounds anywhere this side of Vorarlberg, they have been a catch-all for decades for lots of people rejected, spat out or unwilling to kowtow to the Proporz state and its whiff of democratically-elected totalitarianism. The almost permanent arrangements between the two established parties doesn't exactly offer anything in the way of choice. I agree with that. Not just that lack of choice- it's also the way they divide up public and private jobs between them. Very undemocratic, very crooked, and fuels a genuine sense of grievance. FPOe Mk 1 was very much the product of that atmosphere, which is how liberals and hard right types found themselves thrown together. |
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Post by Merseymike on May 24, 2016 12:46:29 GMT
The almost permanent arrangements between the two established parties doesn't exactly offer anything in the way of choice. I agree with that. Not just that lack of choice- it's also the way they divide up public and private jobs between them. Very undemocratic, very crooked, and fuels a genuine sense of grievance. FPOe Mk 1 was very much the product of that atmosphere, which is how liberals and hard right types found themselves thrown together. Yes. Its often characterised as a corporate state, even more so than Germany. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on May 24, 2016 15:28:06 GMT
Not just that lack of choice- it's also the way they divide up public and private jobs between them. Very undemocratic, very crooked, and fuels a genuine sense of grievance. FPOe Mk 1 was very much the product of that atmosphere, which is how liberals and hard right types found themselves thrown together. Yes. Its often characterised as a corporate state, even more so than Germany. The government always wins |
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on May 24, 2016 16:32:50 GMT
VoteTransfers:
SORA (generally used by the media): Comparison with NRW'13:
Comparison with FirstRound: 
StatisticalOffice of Land OberÖsterreich (naturally only for UpperAustria):
I hope, that I can provide You more diverging Surveys in the next days. |
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on May 24, 2016 16:46:09 GMT
UpperAustria's split into types:  (top: CitizenSize; mid: WorkingType: MainCentre - BiggerCentre - MiddleCentre - SmallCentre - LowerCentre - StronglyAgricultural - Agricultural - Rest; bottom: Cities - SubUrbs - otherRural - RuralTourism - DensilySettled&Rural)  |
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on May 24, 2016 16:51:48 GMT
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Post by greenhert on May 24, 2016 16:53:54 GMT
Yes. Its often characterised as a corporate state, even more so than Germany. The government always wins
That might not be the case in Austria the next time legislative elections come around (which will be in a year's time at most)-the OVP and SPO's combined vote share is a historically low 44-45% in current opinion polls there. The SPO's candidate came fourth and the OVP's candidate came fifth in this Austrian Presidential election, with only just over 11% of the votes cast apiece (11.3% and 11.1%).
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on May 24, 2016 16:55:55 GMT
All major cities except carinthian Villach (60.000 inhab., as RailwayCentre a SPÖ-fortress).
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