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Post by middleenglander on Aug 20, 2021 9:02:15 GMT
Yeovil Town council college ward result in 2019 was LD 871/849/831/796/782/756 Con 431 Lab 245 A Labour candidate was, oddly, co opted to the council in Aug 2020, and her resignation has triggered the by election. So it is a LD gain from Lab On the figures provided there was a Liberal Democrat to Conservative swing of 7% / 8% since 2019 in the College ward of Yeovil Town Council. Similarly, a 12% / 10½% Liberal Democrat to Conservative swing in Clitheroe: Littlemore since 2019. The Conservatives did not contest Clitheroe: Primrose in 2019 yet polled nearly 26% yesterday with the Liberal Democrat share falling almost 30%. In Morecombe: Bare South East there was a 9½% swing from Morecambe Bay Independent to Liberal Democrat in a ward where both by-election and 2019 was a straight fight between the two. In Morecambe: Harbour a Liberal Democrat won the by-election with 58% of the vote whilst the Morecambe Bay Independent came third behind Labour with 15%. In 2019 the ward elected 3 Morecambe Bay Independents and 2 Labour with neither the Liberal Democrats nor Conservatives contesting it. It looks like a Morecambe Bay Independent vacancy. A slightly different alternative view of the night's results.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,657
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Post by The Bishop on Aug 21, 2021 10:06:18 GMT
Certainly a less excitable one
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ilerda
Conservative
Posts: 1,031
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Post by ilerda on Aug 21, 2021 13:39:51 GMT
Anyone using “what a night” to describe town council results of any kind really needs to take a long hard look at themselves.
I get they’re trying to be the hype man, but it’s just a bit embarrassing really.
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 11,543
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Post by Khunanup on Aug 21, 2021 14:44:43 GMT
Anyone using “what a night” to describe town council results of any kind really needs to take a long hard look at themselves. I get they’re trying to be the hype man, but it’s just a bit embarrassing really. Yes, they do look at themselves and know exactly what they're doing. We know within the party that building up strength from below is paramount to our long term health as a party and indeed keeping us relevant in communities around the country. Political parish/town council elections are no less hard fought than principle council elections and bigging up the work that our candidates & their teams have done is all part of the job. The fact that other parties have the luxury of taking elections for granted and belittling the efforts of many who stand under their colours says an awful lot about those rotten institutions.
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Post by Daft H'a'porth A'peth A'pith on Aug 21, 2021 14:59:42 GMT
Its on twitter hardly anyone will notice.
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Post by yellowperil on Aug 21, 2021 15:34:52 GMT
I am used to elections at parish/community/ town council level being conducted without party labels and with some difficulty in filling the posts, so often resorting to co-options, so it is a bit surprising to see anybody getting excited about election results at this level. I can see some other folk feel the same, but I am also aware that there are places where elections at this level are indeed closely fought on a party basis and are taken quite seriously- well as seriously as we take elections to principal councils, and we all take those very seriously on this forum at least. Sometimes the numbers are much the same as for principal councils, and sometimes higher. If you are used to one of these states and encounter the other there is I can see a lot of comprehension missing.It is also true that at parish council level there are fewer powers and less spend compared with principal councils, but often they are less constrained by central government and so freer to make their own decisions, so one underestimates them at your peril.
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 11,543
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Post by Khunanup on Aug 21, 2021 17:11:52 GMT
Its on twitter hardly anyone will notice. But the people who matter will (and let's bear in mind that the trumpeting of the success is not confined to Twitter, indeed some people appear to believe that stuff on Twitter only appears on that platform, which is astonishingly naïve).
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Post by Daft H'a'porth A'peth A'pith on Aug 21, 2021 17:49:58 GMT
Its on twitter hardly anyone will notice. But the people who matter will (and let's bear in mind that the trumpeting of the success is not confined to Twitter, indeed some people appear to believe that stuff on Twitter only appears on that platform, which is astonishingly naïve).
The people who matter, who are they?
Honestly I wouldn't hear any of it if I wasn't on here.
Political Parties thinking their message is always getting out there all the time, that to me is astonishingly naive.
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Post by nw12398 on Aug 21, 2021 17:55:54 GMT
But the people who matter will (and let's bear in mind that the trumpeting of the success is not confined to Twitter, indeed some people appear to believe that stuff on Twitter only appears on that platform, which is astonishingly naïve).
The people who matter, who are they?
Honestly I wouldn't hear any of it if I wasn't on here.
Political Parties thinking their message is always getting out there all the time, that to me is astonishingly naive.
It's ALDC. Maybe it's not who he meant but the people who matter in ALDC's context are those who are very interested in Liberal Democrat local election results.
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Post by Daft H'a'porth A'peth A'pith on Aug 21, 2021 18:02:22 GMT
The people who matter, who are they?
Honestly I wouldn't hear any of it if I wasn't on here.
Political Parties thinking their message is always getting out there all the time, that to me is astonishingly naive.
It's ALDC. Maybe it's not who he meant but the people who matter in ALDC's context are those who are very interested in Liberal Democrat local election results. So hardly anyone? I do get it might energise their campaigning base a bit.
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European Lefty
Labour
Can be bribed with salted liquorice
Posts: 5,617
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Post by European Lefty on Aug 21, 2021 18:06:02 GMT
What we have to remember is that while we may see boasting about TC/PC results as a fairly pathetic sign of a party clutching at straws much of political twitter (from all sides) is as enthusiastic but not as knowledgeable and will read something into it
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Post by timrollpickering on Aug 21, 2021 18:40:45 GMT
I agree with the Liberal Democrat Party President:
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Chris from Brum
Lib Dem
What I need is a strong drink and a peer group.
Posts: 9,204
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Post by Chris from Brum on Aug 21, 2021 19:08:40 GMT
I agree with the Liberal Democrat Party President: He's quite right, and has always taken this position. But he also acknowledges that they can be a local morale booster, and there's nothing wrong in that.
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Post by yellowperil on Aug 21, 2021 20:36:11 GMT
I think Mark's concern on the trumpeting of parish level election results is that from a Lib Dem perspective people might start to believe the propoganda and make policy decisions (say about targetting) based upon it. I think serious political students will get this.
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Foggy
Non-Aligned
Long may it rain
Posts: 5,530
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Post by Foggy on Aug 22, 2021 2:58:36 GMT
I am used to elections at parish/community/ town council level being conducted without party labels and with some difficulty in filling the posts, so often resorting to co-options, so it is a bit surprising to see anybody getting excited about election results at this level. I can see some other folk feel the same, but I am also aware that there are places where elections at this level are indeed closely fought on a party basis and are taken quite seriously- well as seriously as we take elections to principal councils, and we all take those very seriously on this forum at least. Sometimes the numbers are much the same as for principal councils, and sometimes higher. If you are used to one of these states and encounter the other there is I can see a lot of comprehension missing.It is also true that at parish council level there are fewer powers and less spend compared with principal councils, but often they are less constrained by central government and so freer to make their own decisions, so one underestimates them at your peril. It occurs to me that a by-election to fill a vacancy on Royal Sutton Coldfield Town Council would likely attract more votes than one for a ward on, say, Melton Borough Council.
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Post by andrew111 on Aug 22, 2021 22:52:12 GMT
I agree with the Liberal Democrat Party President: He's quite right, and has always taken this position. But he also acknowledges that they can be a local morale booster, and there's nothing wrong in that. In Kirklees, the Kirkburton Parish Council area covers all of Kirkburton Ward and parts of Almondbury and Dalton. The Parish council wards range up to 5000 electors and are larger than many if not most District council wards. The KPC elections are hard fought by all the Parties, with targeting related to which Kirklees ward they are contained in. Tory, Green and Lib Dem councillors have all used the Parish Council as a stepping stone to election as a Kirklees Councillor. No independents stand in most of the KPC wards. So approximately nothing that Mark Pack says applies in this case, and the same would be true of Otley Town Council in Leeds NW (for example). All you have to do to work out whether results in a Town or Parish Council are politically significant is to look at previous results. But like principal authorities they don't tell you much about national politics
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Post by listener on Aug 23, 2021 0:06:10 GMT
Andrew111 has described the parish and town council wards in Kirklees as ranging up to 5,000 electors and "larger than many if not most District council wards". I think he means the parishes, rather than the parish wards.
There are 2 town councils and 3 parish councils in Kirklees, comprising a total of 30 town and parish wards. Meltham Town Council is not subdivided into wards and had an electorate back in 2019 of 6,584. Otherwise Battyeford ward of Mirfield Town Council was the only ward exceeding 5,000 electors.
Kirkburton parish council does indeed comprise the whole of Kirkburton ward and parts of Almondbury and Dalton, but Kirkburton borough ward is divided into 6 parish wards, whilst single parish wards (Lepton and Kirkheaton) cover the small parts of Almondbury and Dalton borough wards.
In 2019, the 25 seats of Kirkburton parish council attracted 47 candidates (13 Labour, 19 Conservative, 4 Lib Dem and 11 Greens). The final political make-up of the council was Con 10, Greens 10, Lib Dem 4 and Lab 1.
By contrast, the neighbouring Holme Valley parish comprises 12 parish wards spread across two Kirklees borough wards, electing 23 parish councillors. 7 parish wards were uncontested in 2019, with only 5 wards contested. 8 Lab and 3 Independents were elected uncontested, whilst the 5 contested wards produced 2 Lab, 4 Con, 3 Ind, 1 Green and 1 Democrats and Veterans Party. The final make-up of the council was 10 Lab, 6 Independents, 4 Con, 1 Green, 1 Democrats and Veterans Party and 1 vacancy for co-option.
Otley Town Council in Leeds covers part of Otley and Yeadon city ward and comprises 15 town councillors. In 2019 the Lib Dems and Conservatives contested all 15 seats, with 5 Green candidates and 2 Independents. The Lib Dems took 13 seats with 1 Green and 1 Independent.
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 11,543
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Post by Khunanup on Aug 23, 2021 9:37:28 GMT
It's ALDC. Maybe it's not who he meant but the people who matter in ALDC's context are those who are very interested in Liberal Democrat local election results. So hardly anyone? I do get it might energise their campaigning base a bit. Yeah, hardly anyone but as a morale boost that's more than nobody and as you say energises those who have put in the hard yards in the election. Bearing in mind how Twitter works, that does its job.
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Post by andrew111 on Aug 23, 2021 10:03:10 GMT
Andrew111 has described the parish and town council wards in Kirklees as ranging up to 5,000 electors and "larger than many if not most District council wards". I think he means the parishes, rather than the parish wards. There are 2 town councils and 3 parish councils in Kirklees, comprising a total of 30 town and parish wards. Meltham Town Council is not subdivided into wards and had an electorate back in 2019 of 6,584. Otherwise Battyeford ward of Mirfield Town Council was the only ward exceeding 5,000 electors. Kirkburton parish council does indeed comprise the whole of Kirkburton ward and parts of Almondbury and Dalton, but Kirkburton borough ward is divided into 6 parish wards, whilst single parish wards (Lepton and Kirkheaton) cover the small parts of Almondbury and Dalton borough wards. In 2019, the 25 seats of Kirkburton parish council attracted 47 candidates (13 Labour, 19 Conservative, 4 Lib Dem and 11 Greens). The final political make-up of the council was Con 10, Greens 10, Lib Dem 4 and Lab 1. By contrast, the neighbouring Holme Valley parish comprises 12 parish wards spread across two Kirklees borough wards, electing 23 parish councillors. 7 parish wards were uncontested in 2019, with only 5 wards contested. 8 Lab and 3 Independents were elected uncontested, whilst the 5 contested wards produced 2 Lab, 4 Con, 3 Ind, 1 Green and 1 Democrats and Veterans Party. The final make-up of the council was 10 Lab, 6 Independents, 4 Con, 1 Green, 1 Democrats and Veterans Party and 1 vacancy for co-option. Otley Town Council in Leeds covers part of Otley and Yeadon city ward and comprises 15 town councillors. In 2019 the Lib Dems and Conservatives contested all 15 seats, with 5 Green candidates and 2 Independents. The Lib Dems took 13 seats with 1 Green and 1 Independent. No, I mean some of the Parish wards, but "up to 5000" did not include the actual number 5000. There are currently 3023 electors in the Kirkheaton ward of KPC, which is 24% of the electorate of Dalton ward on Kirklees Council. There are currently 4394 electors in the Lepton Ward of KPC, which is 33% of the electorate of Almondbury Ward on Kirklees. I am pretty sure that is larger than at least 4 of the district wards contested last week, although I will leave you to find out all the turnouts and calculate the figures. Two of the current Kirklees councillors in Almondbury (one Tory and one Lib Dem) were KPC councillors in Lepton first, and in both cases this was important in getting them onto the principal authority. Two of the three Tory councillors in Kirkburton Ward are also Parish Councillors, and one of the Green Parish councillors managed to win the Kirkburton ward on Kirklees in 2012.
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Post by Merseymike on Aug 23, 2021 10:24:21 GMT
Andrew111 has described the parish and town council wards in Kirklees as ranging up to 5,000 electors and "larger than many if not most District council wards". I think he means the parishes, rather than the parish wards. There are 2 town councils and 3 parish councils in Kirklees, comprising a total of 30 town and parish wards. Meltham Town Council is not subdivided into wards and had an electorate back in 2019 of 6,584. Otherwise Battyeford ward of Mirfield Town Council was the only ward exceeding 5,000 electors. Kirkburton parish council does indeed comprise the whole of Kirkburton ward and parts of Almondbury and Dalton, but Kirkburton borough ward is divided into 6 parish wards, whilst single parish wards (Lepton and Kirkheaton) cover the small parts of Almondbury and Dalton borough wards. In 2019, the 25 seats of Kirkburton parish council attracted 47 candidates (13 Labour, 19 Conservative, 4 Lib Dem and 11 Greens). The final political make-up of the council was Con 10, Greens 10, Lib Dem 4 and Lab 1. By contrast, the neighbouring Holme Valley parish comprises 12 parish wards spread across two Kirklees borough wards, electing 23 parish councillors. 7 parish wards were uncontested in 2019, with only 5 wards contested. 8 Lab and 3 Independents were elected uncontested, whilst the 5 contested wards produced 2 Lab, 4 Con, 3 Ind, 1 Green and 1 Democrats and Veterans Party. The final make-up of the council was 10 Lab, 6 Independents, 4 Con, 1 Green, 1 Democrats and Veterans Party and 1 vacancy for co-option. Otley Town Council in Leeds covers part of Otley and Yeadon city ward and comprises 15 town councillors. In 2019 the Lib Dems and Conservatives contested all 15 seats, with 5 Green candidates and 2 Independents. The Lib Dems took 13 seats with 1 Green and 1 Independent. No, I mean some of the Parish wards, but "up to 5000" did not include the actual number 5000. There are currently 3023 electors in the Kirkheaton ward of KPC, which is 24% of the electorate of Dalton ward on Kirklees Council. There are currently 4394 electors in the Lepton Ward of KPC, which is 33% of the electorate of Almondbury Ward on Kirklees. I am pretty sure that is larger than at least 4 of the district wards contested last week, although I will leave you to find out all the turnouts and calculate the figures. Two of the current Kirklees councillors in Almondbury (one Tory and one Lib Dem) were KPC councillors in Lepton first, and in both cases this was important in getting them onto the principal authority. Two of the three Tory councillors in Kirkburton Ward are also Parish Councillors, and one of the Green Parish councillors managed to win the Kirkburton ward on Kirklees in 2012. I'm a bit confused here. Lepton is within the Kirkburton ward of Kirklees. Are there parts of the Almondbury ward covered by Kirkheaton parish council?
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