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Post by tonygreaves on Feb 13, 2021 16:51:02 GMT
I thought some people might be under the misapprehension that Handforth is part of Greater Manchester, hence the idea that a bit of East Lancashire has kidnapped it from Cheshire. I think that Handforth and Wilmslow were originally part of proposed Greater Manchester area in the Redcliffe-Maud Report but were omitted after some local moaning. Regardless of that, it would not have placed Handforth anywhere in Lancashire let alone East Lancashire which I see as the Blackburn, Burnley, Accrington, Clitheroe and Colne area. The East Lancs road does not of course go to or from East Lancs and never has done! But to be fair, before Lancashire County Council had all its southern parts removed in 1974 (as far as Stretford) what is now called East Lancashire was usually known as North East Lancashire. (There was a body called NELDA - North East Lancashire Development Association - of which I was once a member for some time after local government reorganisation. There have been more recent attempts to rename East Lancs "Pennine Lancashire" with mixed success. East Lancs consists of the boroughs of Blackburn, Hyndburn, Burnley, Rossendale and Pendle. The eastern part of Ribble Valley based on Clitheroe is sometimes included. (Name of NELDA corrected!)
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Post by tonygreaves on Feb 13, 2021 16:58:13 GMT
Handforth was part of (and I think a ward, or perhaps two, of) the former Wilmslow UDC. The bulk of Handforth at the end of the 1960s was a Manchester Corporation overspill estate. I think it was the rest of Wilmslow (proper posh Wilmslow) that fought against incorporation into Greater Manchester.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Feb 13, 2021 19:18:24 GMT
Greater Manchester's councils are a weird mish-mash based on compromises, dated historical remnants, brute force and ignorance. If you were redesigning now, there's no way you'd come up with the current Trafford, Manchester, Stockport and Tameside, let alone Cheshire East and High Peak. To be fair, Cheshire East wasn't created in the early 1970s. Although why the government continually insists that new local authorities can only ever be formed from mergers of boroughs and districts formed back then (with very minimal exceptions) is anybody's guess. Administrative and cartographical convenience for Whitehall, one presumes. Because disaggregating assets and liabilities from existing authorities would be a nightmare?
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Feb 13, 2021 19:38:06 GMT
To be fair, Cheshire East wasn't created in the early 1970s. Although why the government continually insists that new local authorities can only ever be formed from mergers of boroughs and districts formed back then (with very minimal exceptions) is anybody's guess. Administrative and cartographical convenience for Whitehall, one presumes. Because disaggregating assets and liabilities from existing authorities would be a nightmare? Yes, because something would be difficult it shouldn't be done. Classic unimaginative politics. Was setting up a whole new system of local government half a century ago not "a nightmare"? Even if most new second-tier authorities in those days were made from merging old UDCs and RDCs or whatever, it must've had an effect on then-extant county councils that are similar to the ones you're fretting about.
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
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Post by J.G.Harston on Feb 13, 2021 21:11:07 GMT
Because disaggregating assets and liabilities from existing authorities would be a nightmare? Yes, because something would be difficult it shouldn't be done. Classic unimaginative politics. Was setting up a whole new system of local government half a century ago not "a nightmare"? Even if most new second-tier authorities in those days were made from merging old UDCs and RDCs or whatever, it must've had an effect on then-extant county councils that are similar to the ones you're fretting about. I vaugely remember reading an article in the '80s about how Sheffield was still in dispuite with the heirs of Norton Parish Council over their annexation in the 1930s.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Feb 13, 2021 21:31:12 GMT
Because disaggregating assets and liabilities from existing authorities would be a nightmare? Yes, because something would be difficult it shouldn't be done. Classic unimaginative politics. Was setting up a whole new system of local government half a century ago not "a nightmare"? Even if most new second-tier authorities in those days were made from merging old UDCs and RDCs or whatever, it must've had an effect on then-extant county councils that are similar to the ones you're fretting about. I'm not justifying it nor am I fretting about it, simply explaining it. The reorganisation of Cheshire should (IMO) have been a 3-4 unitary structure. It was never going to happen because Hazel Blears just wanted "something" done quickly.
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
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Post by john07 on Feb 13, 2021 21:45:31 GMT
Handforth was part of (and I think a ward, or perhaps two, of) the former Wilmslow UDC. The bulk of Handforth at the end of the 1960s was a Manchester Corporation overspill estate. I think it was the rest of Wilmslow (proper posh Wilmslow) that fought against incorporation into Greater Manchester. When I was a member of Cheadle Constituency Labour Party, this included Wilmslow and Handforth. I also previously worked in Wilmslow for the best part of five years. There were two Wards which our local members thought should have been Labour prospects: Dean Row and Handforth. Both included Manchester overspill estates. Neither materialised for the 1976 elections. This is not unusual with overspill estates in ‘hostile’ territory. It did not help that Labour could not muster the full quota of candidates with only two standing in Handforth (I think?). As it happened, there was a Communist candidate, a Union convenor for the Manchester Direct Works Department. A surprising number voted two Labour and one Communist. I noticed similar results in the (Bramhall) Midland Road estate when I stood in Hazel Grove in 1979. The area had been neglected for years and most were with not voting or going with the Liberals. It probably started as tactical voting but ended up with total commitment. A few attempts were made including my campaign but this only succeeded in bringing back some of the older voters. The young, who had grown up in the area, tended to stay with the Liberals.
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Feb 14, 2021 5:35:49 GMT
Yes, because something would be difficult it shouldn't be done. Classic unimaginative politics. Was setting up a whole new system of local government half a century ago not "a nightmare"? Even if most new second-tier authorities in those days were made from merging old UDCs and RDCs or whatever, it must've had an effect on then-extant county councils that are similar to the ones you're fretting about. I'm not justifying it nor am I fretting about it, simply explaining it. The reorganisation of Cheshire should (IMO) have been a 3-4 unitary structure. It was never going to happen because Hazel Blears just wanted "something" done quickly. It's not just your corner of the country that's suffered from this lack of creative thinking. What was left of Bedfordshire became two unitaries at the same time by merging existing districts. Since then we've had an awkward merger here in Somerset plus two in Suffolk to create larger districts, and a legal order has gone through to impose the Beds/Cheshire solution on bankrupt Northants although there haven't been elections to the new authorities yet. Other than all reforms since the 1980s being by their nature piecemeal, the fact that district borders drawn up out of administrative convenience 50 years ago are almost always still treated as sacrosanct is a worrying pattern.
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
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Post by john07 on Feb 14, 2021 11:28:38 GMT
I wonder if Stockport should be making a bid to incorporate Handforth given the publicity received by the Parish Council?
My pal in Bredbury always wanted Woodley and Bredbury to be combined with Denton rather than remaining in Stockport MDC and Hazel Grove Constituency.
Or do we have to forever use the building blocks set up in the 1973 reorganisation?
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Post by tonygreaves on Feb 14, 2021 18:00:52 GMT
To be fair, Cheshire East wasn't created in the early 1970s. Although why the government continually insists that new local authorities can only ever be formed from mergers of boroughs and districts formed back then (with very minimal exceptions) is anybody's guess. Administrative and cartographical convenience for Whitehall, one presumes. Because disaggregating assets and liabilities from existing authorities would be a nightmare? Plenty of it happened in 1973/74.
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Post by tonygreaves on Feb 14, 2021 18:07:34 GMT
Yes, because something would be difficult it shouldn't be done. Classic unimaginative politics. Was setting up a whole new system of local government half a century ago not "a nightmare"? Even if most new second-tier authorities in those days were made from merging old UDCs and RDCs or whatever, it must've had an effect on then-extant county councils that are similar to the ones you're fretting about. I'm not justifying it nor am I fretting about it, simply explaining it. The reorganisation of Cheshire should (IMO) have been a 3-4 unitary structure. It was never going to happen because Hazel Blears just wanted "something" done quickly. No it was not really a "nightmare" because it was done carefully and slowly and locally-led. The new councils were elected in April, May and June 1973 but did not take over until 1st April 1974. No doubt it went better in some areas than others but my experience was with Lancashire County where there was a substantial reorganisation (loss of territory in the north and a lot in mid-Lancs and to the south; inclusion of four County Boroughs; addition of bits of the West Riding in the Ribble Valley and Pendle). And in Pendle which was created out of two municipal boroughs, five UDCs, and eleven parishes from two rural Districts.
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Post by tonygreaves on Feb 14, 2021 18:10:27 GMT
Handforth was part of (and I think a ward, or perhaps two, of) the former Wilmslow UDC. The bulk of Handforth at the end of the 1960s was a Manchester Corporation overspill estate. I think it was the rest of Wilmslow (proper posh Wilmslow) that fought against incorporation into Greater Manchester. When I was a member of Cheadle Constituency Labour Party, this included Wilmslow and Handforth. I also previously worked in Wilmslow for the best part of five years. There were two Wards which our local members thought should have been Labour prospects: Dean Row and Handforth. Both included Manchester overspill estates. Neither materialised for the 1976 elections. This is not unusual with overspill estates in ‘hostile’ territory. It did not help that Labour could not muster the full quota of candidates with only two standing in Handforth (I think?). As it happened, there was a Communist candidate, a Union convenor for the Manchester Direct Works Department. A surprising number voted two Labour and one Communist. I noticed similar results in the (Bramhall) Midland Road estate when I stood in Hazel Grove in 1979. The area had been neglected for years and most were with not voting or going with the Liberals. It probably started as tactical voting but ended up with total commitment. A few attempts were made including my campaign but this only succeeded in bringing back some of the older voters. The young, who had grown up in the area, tended to stay with the Liberals. The Wilmslow wards were after my time in Wilmslow. If there was overspill in Dean Row it must have been built after 1968? Before then I think Dean Row was a pretty good Liberal ward, with a lot of reliance on the old Council estate at Lacey Green which was a Liberal stronghold.
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
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Post by john07 on Feb 14, 2021 18:39:18 GMT
The Wilmslow wards were after my time in Wilmslow. If there was overspill in Dean Row it must have been built after 1968? Before then I think Dean Row was a pretty good Liberal ward, with a lot of reliance on the old Council estate at Lacey Green which was a Liberal stronghold. The two overspill estates were: Spath Lane in Handforth and Colshaw Farm in Wilmslow. As far as I can see they were built in the mid to late 1960s. I worked in Wilmslow from 1964 to 1968, before we were relocated to central Manchester, so they were not around in my time there either. My colleagues in the (then) Cheadle Constituency Labour Party were convinced that both Handforth and Dean Row 'looked', like they ought to be Labour wards. They never had been. I suspect that both areas have been totally gentrified over the years since then.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Feb 14, 2021 19:49:34 GMT
The Wilmslow wards were after my time in Wilmslow. If there was overspill in Dean Row it must have been built after 1968? Before then I think Dean Row was a pretty good Liberal ward, with a lot of reliance on the old Council estate at Lacey Green which was a Liberal stronghold. The two overspill estates were: Spath Lane in Handforth and Colshaw Farm in Wilmslow. As far as I can see they were built in the mid to late 1960s. I worked in Wilmslow from 1964 to 1968, before we were relocated to central Manchester, so they were not around in my time there either. My colleagues in the (then) Cheadle Constituency Labour Party were convinced that both Handforth and Dean Row 'looked', like they ought to be Labour wards. They never had been. I suspect that both areas have been totally gentrified over the years since then.Not sure about the position in 2021, but I knew a local councillor a decade or so ago and it certainly hadn't been gentrified then.
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
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Post by john07 on Feb 14, 2021 20:17:46 GMT
The two overspill estates were: Spath Lane in Handforth and Colshaw Farm in Wilmslow. As far as I can see they were built in the mid to late 1960s. I worked in Wilmslow from 1964 to 1968, before we were relocated to central Manchester, so they were not around in my time there either. My colleagues in the (then) Cheadle Constituency Labour Party were convinced that both Handforth and Dean Row 'looked', like they ought to be Labour wards. They never had been. I suspect that both areas have been totally gentrified over the years since then.Not sure about the position in 2021, but I knew a local councillor a decade or so ago and it certainly hadn't been gentrified then. Just a few local newspaper stories. So probably wishful thinking? www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/incoming/gallery/overspill-estate-goes-upmarket-838204
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Feb 14, 2021 23:09:50 GMT
I wonder if Stockport should be making a bid to incorporate Handforth given the publicity received by the Parish Council? My pal in Bredbury always wanted Woodley and Bredbury to be combined with Denton rather than remaining in Stockport MDC and Hazel Grove Constituency. Or do we have to forever use the building blocks set up in the 1973 reorganisation? I'm going to propose the next best thing and suggest to the BCE putting Handforth ward into the Cheadle constituency. And no, we don't have to use the 1973 building blocks forever.
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peterl
Green
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Post by peterl on Feb 17, 2021 9:23:38 GMT
There is now a second vacancy on Ferndown Town Council, Central North Ward, resignation of Harry Worth (Con). Bad news for the Tories as they no longer enjoy even a pluarity on the council. A by election will almost certainly be called. One in Central Ward is already due and will also be a Tory defence. I expect the two contests to be between Tories and the "Independent Voice for Ferndown Residents" faction. Should be reasonably interesting as town council contests go. The Dorset Council thread on the final page in the 2019 unitary elections section has more details on the background on the council for anyone interested.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 17, 2021 9:27:27 GMT
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 17, 2021 9:27:54 GMT
One for the teens there.
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Post by tonygreaves on Feb 18, 2021 22:59:06 GMT
I am not sure that recent exposure of Handforth to the world suggests that any gentrification process had reached the parish council.
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