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Post by timokane on Feb 6, 2021 6:25:10 GMT
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
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Post by john07 on Feb 6, 2021 17:09:32 GMT
What has East Lancashire got to do with Handforth?
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Post by gwynthegriff on Feb 6, 2021 18:16:54 GMT
What has East Lancashire got to do with Handforth? I am reminded of when the Leader of Crewe & Nantwich lobbied for government assistance under some scheme or another and was told by the Minister that "Crewe is no different to any other Lancashire town". I suspect somebody is simply confusing Cheshire East with East Lancashire.
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john07
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Post by john07 on Feb 6, 2021 18:23:35 GMT
What has East Lancashire got to do with Handforth? I am reminded of when the Leader of Crewe & Nantwich lobbied for government assistance under some scheme or another and was told by the Minister that "Crewe is no different to any other Lancashire town". I suspect somebody is simply confusing Cheshire East with East Lancashire. An understandable mistake as Handforth is only around 45 miles south of Burnley?
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Post by greenhert on Feb 6, 2021 18:28:37 GMT
What has East Lancashire got to do with Handforth? Nothing. Handforth is in Cheshire!
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Post by gwynthegriff on Feb 6, 2021 18:49:27 GMT
I am reminded of when the Leader of Crewe & Nantwich lobbied for government assistance under some scheme or another and was told by the Minister that "Crewe is no different to any other Lancashire town". I suspect somebody is simply confusing Cheshire East with East Lancashire. An understandable mistake as Handforth is only around 45 miles south of Burnley? Ever watched Richard Osman's House of Games? Where "celebrities" display the most astonishing ignorance. The touring stand-up comedian who thought John O'Groats to Lands End was 25,000 miles. Or the BBC Newsreader and Correspondent who thought the number of languages in the world was . . . 78! (Presumably he slept through all those stories about schools where dozens of languages are spoken) Never underestimate the degree of ignorance that's around.
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john07
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Post by john07 on Feb 6, 2021 19:19:49 GMT
An understandable mistake as Handforth is only around 45 miles south of Burnley? Ever watched Richard Osman's House of Games? Where "celebrities" display the most astonishing ignorance. The touring stand-up comedian who thought John O'Groats to Lands End was 25,000 miles. Or the BBC Newsreader and Correspondent who thought the number of languages in the world was . . . 78! (Presumably he slept through all those stories about schools where dozens of languages are spoken) Never underestimate the degree of ignorance that's around. Indeed. This probably ought to be on the 'Incredible Stupidity' Thread but Handforth is closer to Buxton in Derbyshire (19 miles), Newcastle-under-Lyme in Staffordshire (27 miles), Holmfirth in West Yorkshire (30 miles), Sheffield in South Yorkshire (38 miles), and Connar's Quay in Flintshire (41 miles) than it is to anywhere in East Lancashire.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 6, 2021 19:33:20 GMT
I thought some people might be under the misapprehension that Handforth is part of Greater Manchester, hence the idea that a bit of East Lancashire has kidnapped it from Cheshire.
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
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Post by john07 on Feb 6, 2021 20:07:07 GMT
I thought some people might be under the misapprehension that Handforth is part of Greater Manchester, hence the idea that a bit of East Lancashire has kidnapped it from Cheshire. I think that Handforth and Wilmslow were originally part of proposed Greater Manchester area in the Redcliffe-Maud Report but were omitted after some local moaning. Regardless of that, it would not have placed Handforth anywhere in Lancashire let alone East Lancashire which I see as the Blackburn, Burnley, Accrington, Clitheroe and Colne area.
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Chris from Brum
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Post by Chris from Brum on Feb 6, 2021 20:11:24 GMT
I thought some people might be under the misapprehension that Handforth is part of Greater Manchester, hence the idea that a bit of East Lancashire has kidnapped it from Cheshire. I think that Handforth and Wilmslow were originally part of proposed Greater Manchester area in the Redcliffe-Maud Report but were omitted after some local moaning. Regardless of that, it would not have placed Handforth anywhere in Lancashire let alone East Lancashire which I see as the Blackburn, Burnley, Accrington, Clitheroe and Colne area. The East Lancashire Road emerges from Liverpool and makes a beeline for Manchester. I therefore suggest that Manchester is "East Lancashire" in much the same way as Glasgow is "The West of Scotland", despite much of Scotland being geographically to the west of that city.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 6, 2021 20:19:06 GMT
I thought some people might be under the misapprehension that Handforth is part of Greater Manchester, hence the idea that a bit of East Lancashire has kidnapped it from Cheshire. I think that Handforth and Wilmslow were originally part of proposed Greater Manchester area in the Redcliffe-Maud Report but were omitted after some local moaning. Is there perhaps a video you can direct me to, that shows what local moaning from Handforth looks like?
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john07
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Post by john07 on Feb 6, 2021 21:02:31 GMT
I think that Handforth and Wilmslow were originally part of proposed Greater Manchester area in the Redcliffe-Maud Report but were omitted after some local moaning. Is there perhaps a video you can direct me to, that shows what local moaning from Handforth looks like? When the proposal came out for the new Greater Manchester area, it caused all sorts of complaints from Cheadle Hulme, Bramhall, Poynton and particularly Wilmslow and Handforth. Those areas basically did not want to become part of Greater Manchester or Stockport despite the commuting patterns suggesting that they already were. In the final outcome, Poynton, Handforth, and Wilmslow remained in Cheshire while Cheadle Hulme and Bramhall along with Hazel Grove, Bredbury and Marple did end up in Stockport District and Greater Manchester County without much local enthusiasm. Wilmslow (where I worked for five years) and Handforth later became part of Cheadle Constituency in 1974. I can see why they did not see themselves fitting into to Greater Manchester. However their fit into Macclesfield District Council and Cheshire County Council was even more tenuous. Strangely, there were elements with the local Labour Party Branches that shared these misgivings. Labour regularly elected councillors in Bredbury and Woodley before reorganisation. Similarly Labour also won seats on Cheadle and Gatley Urban District Council in the Adswood and in the Cheadle East Wards. In Stockport Council, one Labour Councillor has been elected in Cheadle Hulme North and one in Bredbury since the 1973 reorgnisation.
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Crimson King
Lib Dem
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Post by Crimson King on Feb 7, 2021 0:07:39 GMT
I think that Handforth and Wilmslow were originally part of proposed Greater Manchester area in the Redcliffe-Maud Report but were omitted after some local moaning. Is there perhaps a video you can direct me to, that shows what local moaning from Handforth looks like? Local Moaning is just down the road from West Wittering a long way from Nether Fuss
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Feb 8, 2021 8:52:28 GMT
Is there perhaps a video you can direct me to, that shows what local moaning from Handforth looks like? When the proposal came out for the new Greater Manchester area, it caused all sorts of complaints from Cheadle Hulme, Bramhall, Poynton and particularly Wilmslow and Handforth. Those areas basically did not want to become part of Greater Manchester or Stockport despite the commuting patterns suggesting that they already were. In the final outcome, Poynton, Handforth, and Wilmslow remained in Cheshire while Cheadle Hulme and Bramhall along with Hazel Grove, Bredbury and Marple did end up in Stockport District and Greater Manchester County without much local enthusiasm. Wilmslow (where I worked for five years) and Handforth later became part of Cheadle Constituency in 1974. I can see why they did not see themselves fitting into to Greater Manchester. However their fit into Macclesfield District Council and Cheshire County Council was even more tenuous. Strangely, there were elements with the local Labour Party Branches that shared these misgivings. Labour regularly elected councillors in Bredbury and Woodley before reorganisation. Similarly Labour also won seats on Cheadle and Gatley Urban District Council in the Adswood and in the Cheadle East Wards. In Stockport Council, one Labour Councillor has been elected in Cheadle Hulme North and one in Bredbury since the 1973 reorgnisation. I'm not sure this is strange. Local Labour branches will tend to share the predominant local identity of their area, even if they don't share its politics.
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john07
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Post by john07 on Feb 8, 2021 14:44:32 GMT
When the proposal came out for the new Greater Manchester area, it caused all sorts of complaints from Cheadle Hulme, Bramhall, Poynton and particularly Wilmslow and Handforth. Those areas basically did not want to become part of Greater Manchester or Stockport despite the commuting patterns suggesting that they already were. In the final outcome, Poynton, Handforth, and Wilmslow remained in Cheshire while Cheadle Hulme and Bramhall along with Hazel Grove, Bredbury and Marple did end up in Stockport District and Greater Manchester County without much local enthusiasm. Wilmslow (where I worked for five years) and Handforth later became part of Cheadle Constituency in 1974. I can see why they did not see themselves fitting into to Greater Manchester. However their fit into Macclesfield District Council and Cheshire County Council was even more tenuous. Strangely, there were elements with the local Labour Party Branches that shared these misgivings. Labour regularly elected councillors in Bredbury and Woodley before reorganisation. Similarly Labour also won seats on Cheadle and Gatley Urban District Council in the Adswood and in the Cheadle East Wards. In Stockport Council, one Labour Councillor has been elected in Cheadle Hulme North and one in Bredbury since the 1973 reorgnisation. I'm not sure this is strange. Local Labour branches will tend to share the predominant local identity of their area, even if they don't share its politics. Generally most Labour Party activists in Cheadle and Hazel Grove Constituencies welcomed the move from Urban District Councils into Stockport MDC because they would be in an authority where Labour stood no chance into one where they would have potential for control. Those from areas like Marple, Bramhall, and Hazel Grove crrtainly saw it that way. There were some exceptions to this though. Bredbury and Romiley UDC had a history of electing Labour councillors in Woodley Ward and in some of the Bredbury Wards. They would always be outnumbered on the Council but they had an active presence including the likes of Peter Snape (later MP for West Bromwich East). After incorporation into Stockport MDC, the ward amalgamation made it difficult for Labour to win a Council seat in the area. They did win one seat in 1980 but that has not been repeated since. In The former Cheadle and Gatley UDC, Labour regularly won a seat in Adswood Ward and also won in Cheadle East. The maximum representation for five: three from Adswood and two from Cheadle East. That was out of a total council of 21 member from the seven Wards. Since amalgamation Labour has won one seat in 57 years: Cheadle Hulme North. Certainly in the early days of Stockport MDC, it is understandable why many activists would look back to the UDC days. Then Labour might be the second or third party locally but would have representation and the ability to influence things. The UDCs often used seniority to determine committee chairs. Norman Stoddart was for much of the time the sole Labour member on the council but he was Chair of the Transport Committee. After amalgamation, Labour were the third party on Stockport MDC so many from the former UDCs saw it as a step back from pre-reorganisation days. At least then they were a minority party with representation. I heard similar argument from a University friend from Bridgwater in Somerset. There the council remained Labour throughout the dark days of 1968-9. This was lost through amalgamation with the creation of Sedgemoor DC.
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Feb 8, 2021 17:38:40 GMT
I'm not sure this is strange. Local Labour branches will tend to share the predominant local identity of their area, even if they don't share its politics. Generally most Labour Party activists in Cheadle and Hazel Grove Constituencies welcomed the move from Urban District Councils into Stockport MDC because they would be in an authority where Labour stood no chance into one where they would have potential for control. Those from areas like Marple, Bramhall, and Hazel Grove crrtainly saw it that way. There were some exceptions to this though. Bredbury and Romiley UDC had a history of electing Labour councillors in Woodley Ward and in some of the Bredbury Wards. They would always be outnumbered on the Council but they had an active presence including the likes of Peter Snape (later MP for West Bromwich East). After incorporation into Stockport MDC, the ward amalgamation made it difficult for Labour to win a Council seat in the area. They did win one seat in 1980 but that has not been repeated since. In The former Cheadle and Gatley UDC, Labour regularly won a seat in Adswood Ward and also won in Cheadle East. The maximum representation for five: three from Adswood and two from Cheadle East. That was out of a total council of 21 member from the seven Wards. Since amalgamation Labour has won one seat in 57 years: Cheadle Hulme North. Certainly in the early days of Stockport MDC, it is understandable why many activists would look back to the UDC days. Then Labour might be the second or third party locally but would have representation and the ability to influence things. The UDCs often used seniority to determine committee chairs. Norman Stoddart was for much of the time the sole Labour member on the council but he was Chair of the Transport Committee. After amalgamation, Labour were the third party on Stockport MDC so many from the former UDCs saw it as a step back from pre-reorganisation days. At least then they were a minority party with representation. I heard similar argument from a University friend from Bridgwater in Somerset. There the council remained Labour throughout the dark days of 1968-9. This was lost through amalgamation with the creation of Sedgemoor DC. Certainly in my area some members would welcome amalgamation with Cambridge, because there would be the potential for being in a Labour-led authority, but others would oppose it because they feel separate from Cambridge (even if they work there and access many services from there.) Whereas in Cambridge there's a lot of opposition because it would change from being an authority that's labour more often than not to one where they might be anywhere from the largest party in a coalition to a third party.
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Feb 9, 2021 7:04:51 GMT
I'm not sure this is strange. Local Labour branches will tend to share the predominant local identity of their area, even if they don't share its politics. After amalgamation, Labour were the third party on Stockport MDC so many from the former UDCs saw it as a step back from pre-reorganisation days. At least then they were a minority party with representation. I heard similar argument from a University friend from Bridgwater in Somerset. There the council remained Labour throughout the dark days of 1968-9. This was lost through amalgamation with the creation of Sedgemoor DC. Have Labour not consistently been the main opposition here? It looks as if the Alliance/LDs were only the second party for one term when we first moved down this way (and I was still far too young to vote) before normal business resumed. Of course, until relatively recently not only did Labour have a monopoly on the Bridgwater wards, but Highbridge consistently voted red too.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Feb 10, 2021 2:24:30 GMT
Greater Manchester's councils are a weird mish-mash based on compromises, dated historical remnants, brute force and ignorance. If you were redesigning now, there's no way you'd come up with the current Trafford, Manchester, Stockport and Tameside, let alone Cheshire East and High Peak.
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Feb 10, 2021 4:23:46 GMT
Greater Manchester's councils are a weird mish-mash based on compromises, dated historical remnants, brute force and ignorance. If you were redesigning now, there's no way you'd come up with the current Trafford, Manchester, Stockport and Tameside, let alone Cheshire East and High Peak. To be fair, Cheshire East wasn't created in the early 1970s. Although why the government continually insists that new local authorities can only ever be formed from mergers of boroughs and districts formed back then (with very minimal exceptions) is anybody's guess. Administrative and cartographical convenience for Whitehall, one presumes.
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Post by listener on Feb 10, 2021 13:22:44 GMT
My guess, Foggy, is that whenever you attempt to make relatively minor boundary changes, however sensible, you stir up a hornet's nest, not least of your own loyal supporters and activists - so the safer course is to leave well alone.
The last attempt to move Evanstown from Bridgend to Rhondda Cynon Taff, which would appear to be logical, provoked howls of protest.
The proposal to move a newly constructed housing estate from one parish to another in Cornwall, parishes which had only been established twenty years ago, provoked a great deal of heat.
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