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Post by Merseymike on Jan 8, 2015 13:02:39 GMT
Oh, I'm sure you are right. But there were some good things to come out of Eurocommunism and Marxism Today, and I liked their relatively non-sectarian way of working. I think that the British Eurocommunists were interesting as they had influence much greater than their numbers would have indicated possible, largely because of their working through the social movements Were the CPGB Eurocommunist in the end? Split between the Euros and the tankies, but yes - then they effectively dissolved themselves. |
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Jan 8, 2015 13:04:28 GMT
Of course, many of the "tankies" had already toddled off to form the New Communist Party - fond memories of reading the "New Worker" in the library as a young 'un  |
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Post by maxque on Jan 8, 2015 18:10:10 GMT
But a lot of their ideas were very influential - they had considerable influence over the new urban left, and were amongst the first to promote the equality agenda which even the Conservatives sign up to these days. There is an argument that I've seen before that the Eurocommunist pursuit of the equality agenda was (in some parties) not so much for its own merits, but to gain a new electorate. The PCF was very, very suspicious of Eurocommunism until Robert Hue took over, and their commitment to equality was...erm...a bit lacking. Hue himself did embrace Eurocommunism, even if he didn't call it that, but again I've seen suggestions that his sudden conversion to embracing racial and sexual minorities was a deliberate attempt to fill the void left by a leeching of support amongst the white working class to the PS. Blimey, even I found what I just wrote a bit cynical. There is still "old-school", anti-equality people in the PCF, through, like that rabidly opposed to gay marriage and quite nationalist MP from Oise-6, Patrice Carvalho or the former MP and mayor of Vénissieux André Gerin, very rabidly opposed to immigration and growing closer to FN every day. |
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Post by Merseymike on Jan 8, 2015 18:51:20 GMT
There is an argument that I've seen before that the Eurocommunist pursuit of the equality agenda was (in some parties) not so much for its own merits, but to gain a new electorate. The PCF was very, very suspicious of Eurocommunism until Robert Hue took over, and their commitment to equality was...erm...a bit lacking. Hue himself did embrace Eurocommunism, even if he didn't call it that, but again I've seen suggestions that his sudden conversion to embracing racial and sexual minorities was a deliberate attempt to fill the void left by a leeching of support amongst the white working class to the PS. Blimey, even I found what I just wrote a bit cynical. There is still "old-school", anti-equality people in the PCF, through, like that rabidly opposed to gay marriage and quite nationalist MP from Oise-6, Patrice Carvalho or the former MP and mayor of Vénissieux André Gerin, very rabidly opposed to immigration and growing closer to FN every day. And many of the PCF voters switched straight to the FN, notably in Marseilles, which has a right wing mayor in consequence, and in much of the 'red belt' of small industrial towns around Paris. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 8, 2015 18:56:27 GMT
There is still "old-school", anti-equality people in the PCF, through, like that rabidly opposed to gay marriage and quite nationalist MP from Oise-6, Patrice Carvalho or the former MP and mayor of Vénissieux André Gerin, very rabidly opposed to immigration and growing closer to FN every day. And many of the PCF voters switched straight to the FN, notably in Marseilles, which has a right wing mayor in consequence, and in much of the 'red belt' of small industrial towns around Paris. Helped in the case of Marseilles by the Deferre regime, and in the red belt by the fact that there was a history of electing socialists who shifted right or became mavericks- most notably Laval. Interestingly, Deferre was involved in the last recorded duel on French soil. |
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Post by maxque on Jan 8, 2015 19:34:53 GMT
There is still "old-school", anti-equality people in the PCF, through, like that rabidly opposed to gay marriage and quite nationalist MP from Oise-6, Patrice Carvalho or the former MP and mayor of Vénissieux André Gerin, very rabidly opposed to immigration and growing closer to FN every day. And many of the PCF voters switched straight to the FN, notably in Marseilles, which has a right wing mayor in consequence, and in much of the 'red belt' of small industrial towns around Paris. The red belt around Paris doesn't vote FN. It's one of the worst areas in France for FN. They are stronger in the belt around the red belt, the belt of white working people which were outpriced out of Paris and don't want to go in immigrant-heavy red belt. The French call them the "périurbain subi" (forced peri-urban), peri-urban being the area between suburbs and rural areas, which Americans would call exurbs. They move there in poorly-build houses, have to commute a few hours a day and feel government cares more about the immigrants and the wealthy people living in Paris than them. But, yeah, sure, lots of them were living in red belt before being outpriced (in places like Montreuil) or left. |
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Post by maxque on Jan 8, 2015 19:40:06 GMT
And many of the PCF voters switched straight to the FN, notably in Marseilles, which has a right wing mayor in consequence, and in much of the 'red belt' of small industrial towns around Paris. Helped in the case of Marseilles by the Deferre regime, and in the red belt by the fact that there was a history of electing socialists who shifted right or became mavericks- most notably Laval. Interestingly, Deferre was involved in the last recorded duel on French soil. Marseilles continues with the dubious and most likely corrupt powerful left-wingers, like the infamous president of the Bouches-du-Rhône department (Marseilles department), Jean-Noël Guérini, which has links with the current right-wing mayor (there was a deal at last municipal elections in one borough between some close Guérini ally (nominally a left radical) and the right-wing mayor). |
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Post by No Offence Alan on Jan 8, 2015 19:51:10 GMT
I keep returning to this thread because I think some-one has said something about the Greek election instead of French Communism.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 8, 2015 22:56:29 GMT
I keep returning to this thread because I think some-one has said something about the Greek election instead of French Communism. In fairness, there's an equal chance that the French Politics thread could turn into one about Greek elections... |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 8, 2015 23:00:36 GMT
And many of the PCF voters switched straight to the FN, notably in Marseilles, which has a right wing mayor in consequence, and in much of the 'red belt' of small industrial towns around Paris. The red belt around Paris doesn't vote FN. It's one of the worst areas in France for FN. They are stronger in the belt around the red belt, the belt of white working people which were outpriced out of Paris and don't want to go in immigrant-heavy red belt. The French call them the "périurbain subi" (forced peri-urban), peri-urban being the area between suburbs and rural areas, which Americans would call exurbs. They move there in poorly-build houses, have to commute a few hours a day and feel government cares more about the immigrants and the wealthy people living in Paris than them. But, yeah, sure, lots of them were living in red belt before being outpriced (in places like Montreuil) or left. I once had a grim week driving round Brico-Depots and Castoramas around the Paris suburbs, and you still see loads of FN posters, totally out of proportion to their vote. Those Paris outer suburbs though- grimmer than anything we have in this country. |
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Post by Devonian on Jan 9, 2015 17:09:15 GMT
New poll from Palmos Analysis, fieldwork 7-8 Jan (changes from last poll 2-3 Jan)  SYRIZA 28.1% (-1.3) ND 22.6% (+0.6) Golden Dawn 6.7% (+1.0) To Potami 5.5% (+1.4) KKE 4.3% (nc) Independent Greeks 2.3% (-0.9) PASOK 2.1% (-0.9) Kinima 1.5% (+1.5) LOAS 1.4% (?) Estimate based on those figures   tvxs.gr/news/ellada/stis-55-i-diafora-syriza-nd-kato-apo-3-pasok-kidisoPolls due out later for Metron Analysis and Rass |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2015 20:48:43 GMT
Rather worrying the polls are not showing a narrowing lead for SYRZIA, I am going to stick my neck out and predict:
SYRZIA - 34%
ND - 32%
KKE - 6%
GD - 8%
Potami - 8%
PSOK - 4%
others - 8%
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Post by Devonian on Jan 9, 2015 21:56:45 GMT
New poll from Metron Analysis (not sure of the fieldwork dates, changes since last poll published 13 December) Note:these figures are adjusted for DK/Refused  SYRIZA 34.1% (+1.3) ND 30.0% (+1.4) To Potami 8.4% (-0.8) Golden Dawn 5.6% (nc) KKE 5.3% (-0.3) PASOK 4.1% (-1.7) Independent Greeks 3.5% (+0.1) Kinima 2.8% (+2.8) LAOS 1.4% (?) www.parapolitika.gr/Contents%2fItem%2fDisplay%2f138084 |
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Post by Devonian on Jan 9, 2015 23:40:02 GMT
Rass Poll (changes from the last poll 29-30 December) SYRIZA 29.8% (-0.6) ND 27.1% (-0.2) Golden Dawn 5.2% (+1.4) To Potomi 5.0% (+0.3) KKE 4.8% (nc) PASOK 3.4% (-0.1) Independent Greeks 2.5% (nc) Kinima 2.2% (+2.2)  link |
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Post by Devonian on Jan 10, 2015 0:09:50 GMT
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Post by Devonian on Jan 10, 2015 0:15:55 GMT
Rather worrying the polls are not showing a narrowing lead for SYRZIA, I am going to stick my neck out and predict: SYRZIA - 34% ND - 32% KKE - 6% GD - 8% Potami - 8% PSOK - 4% others - 8% The SYRIZA lead does seem to be narrowing slightly but it still has a significant lead with all polling companies and there's only two weeks to go. Looks like SYRIZA are going to win. |
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Post by bolbridge on Jan 10, 2015 1:00:38 GMT
Rather worrying the polls are not showing a narrowing lead for SYRZIA, I am going to stick my neck out and predict: SYRZIA - 34% ND - 32% KKE - 6% GD - 8% Potami - 8% PSOK - 4% others - 8% The SYRIZA lead does seem to be narrowing slightly but it still has a significant lead with all polling companies and there's only two weeks to go. Looks like SYRIZA are going to win. Unless at the last minute fear of the unknown delivers a boost to ND, although I don't know the Greek mentality in this regard. |
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Post by Devonian on Jan 10, 2015 11:47:39 GMT
Poll from MRB (changes in brackets are from last poll taken 10-13 December) note: (in the graph below the figures excluding DK/refused are in orange, not excluding DK/refused in blue)  SYRIZA 33.7% (+2.9) ND 30.1% (+3.4) To Potami 6.8% (-0.5) KKE 5.7% (-0.7) PASOK 5.5% (-1.5) Golden Dawn 5.4% (-0.3) Independent Greeks 3.1% (-0.5) Kinima 2.9% (+2.9) DIMAR 1.1% (-0.8) www.euro2day.gr/news/economy/article/1292064/provadisma-36-sto-syriza-dinei-h-mrb-oi-edres.htmlSo we see a similar pattern. The SYRIZA lead declining but still significant. Seat projection based on the above poll  |
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Post by Devonian on Jan 10, 2015 17:28:33 GMT
Another opinion poll, this one from Kapa, fieldwork 7-8 Jan (changes from the last Kappa poll 23-24 December) SYRIZA 28.1% (+0.9) ND 25.5% (+0.8) To Potomi 6.5% (+0.7) Golden Dawn 5.4% (-0.1) PASOK 5.2% (-0.9) KKE 5.0% (-0.8) Kinima 2.8% (+2.8) Independent Greeks 2.6% (+0.1) news.in.gr/greece/article/?aid=1231376352 |
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Post by Devonian on Jan 10, 2015 17:48:29 GMT
And another one this one from Public Issue, fieldwork 2-9 December (numbers in brackets are changes from last Public Issue poll 10-17 December) (numbers rounded to nearest 0.5) SYRIZA 38% (+1.5) ND 30% (+0.5) To Potami 7% (-1.5) PASOK 5.5% (-0.5) Golden Dawn 5.5% (-0.5) KKE 5% (-1) Independent Greeks 3% (-0.5) DIMAR 1% (nc) I'm guessing Kinima wasn't included as the fieldwork had already started when the party was launched. www.kontranews.gr/politiki/item/31175-monades-syrizaThe seat projection given with the poll shows SYRIZA with 151 seats which would make this the first poll to give SYRIZA an overall majority  |
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