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Post by bolbridge on Dec 30, 2014 15:03:12 GMT
I'm not sure why so many people on the left seem to be such fans of Syriza, who don't appear to be a social democratic party to my eyes. To my mind, ND and PASOK have indeed been a criminal cartel who spent a lot of money they didn't have to retain power- and Syriza seem to be a perfectly honest, non-criminal group trying to maintain the same economic incontinence that ND and PASOK were responsible for. Would you genuinely want Labour to be more like Syriza? (I'll let Merseymike out of this one!) I've no idea who I'd vote for in Greece though, that said. I'd maybe go, with little confidence, for To Potami. Although I'd probably just pack a suitcase and head for Munich or Melbourne. To Potami may well be the best of a particularly bad bunch, but the thought of SYRIZA winning scares me so much I would have to choose ND because of the boost that the first place party gets. |
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Richard Allen
Banned
Four time loser in VUKPOTY finals
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Post by Richard Allen on Dec 30, 2014 15:26:20 GMT
Peter Shore saw it coming, he knew the EU was a capitalist corporatist stitch up. Fixed that for you. |
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Post by carlton43 on Dec 30, 2014 15:27:59 GMT
You have to question the sanity of anyone who buys a Greek Govt Bond. Parties talk about negotiating the bailout terms, as if they are in a position of strength, when in fact they are completely in the hands of their EU/German masters who have bailed them out in the name of the Euro project. And Brazilian and Argentinian debt. |
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Dec 31, 2014 1:44:55 GMT
That opinion is supported by historical fact. In approx. 130 years since becoming an Independent nation, Greece has defaulted on sovereign debt five times. Anecdotally, I would add that my Bulgarian shelf fillers, when asked why no Greeks had joined them in the land of milk and porridge, given 40% youth unemployment, replied "they are a lazy, feckless, grasping, disorganized bunch of do-nothing no-hopers!" My Bulgarians and Hungarians say pretty much the same. |
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Dec 31, 2014 1:46:24 GMT
That opinion is supported by historical fact. In approx. 130 years since becoming an Independent nation, Greece has defaulted on sovereign debt five times. And, of course, the last monetary union they were in was wrecked by their antics. |
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maxque
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Post by maxque on Dec 31, 2014 2:35:36 GMT
The massive mistake was letting them join the EU at all based on a document of complete and utter fiction .......... the economic statement of compliance to norms for entry. The EU would benefit by their withdrawal, and Greece would benefit even more. They lied their way into the eurozone and are now paying the consequences. Did they? I heard than EU and Germany were very aware than there was no compliance, but closed eyes anyways. |
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cibwr
Plaid Cymru
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Post by cibwr on Dec 31, 2014 11:16:19 GMT
That opinion is supported by historical fact. In approx. 130 years since becoming an Independent nation, Greece has defaulted on sovereign debt five times. And, of course, the last monetary union they were in was wrecked by their antics. Ah the Latin Union, I thought it was also due to Italians debasing their currency? Seriously Greece has had multiple issues with tax collection and collective tax avoidance for years. Until there is a culture where the people pay their taxes and where the tax system is run honestly then there is no chance for the state to run properly. |
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Post by carlton43 on Dec 31, 2014 11:22:38 GMT
That opinion is supported by historical fact. In approx. 130 years since becoming an Independent nation, Greece has defaulted on sovereign debt five times. Anecdotally, I would add that my Bulgarian shelf fillers, when asked why no Greeks had joined them in the land of milk and porridge, given 40% youth unemployment, replied "they are a lazy, feckless, grasping, disorganized bunch of do-nothing no-hopers!" My Bulgarians and Hungarians say pretty much the same. 'My Bulgarians..........!' You see, we were right all along! They are everywhere and setting the Greek agenda for us! Told you!! |
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Post by carlton43 on Dec 31, 2014 11:24:21 GMT
They lied their way into the eurozone and are now paying the consequences. Did they? I heard than EU and Germany were very aware than there was no compliance, but closed eyes anyways. And your authority and 'evidence' for that remark is....? |
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Post by carlton43 on Dec 31, 2014 11:26:38 GMT
And, of course, the last monetary union they were in was wrecked by their antics. Ah the Latin Union, I thought it was also due to Italians debasing their currency? Seriously Greece has had multiple issues with tax collection and collective tax avoidance for years. Until there is a culture where the people pay their taxes and where the tax system is run honestly then there is no chance for the state to run properly. Or, even a culture where nearly a half do some work and nearly a half retire after 55 would help a bit. |
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Dec 31, 2014 12:04:44 GMT
And, of course, the last monetary union they were in was wrecked by their antics. Ah the Latin Union, I thought it was also due to Italians debasing their currency? Seriously Greece has had multiple issues with tax collection and collective tax avoidance for years. Until there is a culture where the people pay their taxes and where the tax system is run honestly then there is no chance for the state to run properly. You're correct (Vatican I think?) but it was the Greeks who got kicked out, later being readmitted. What actually screwed it was the badly set conversion rate between gold and silver that was exploited (frequently by German merchants). |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Dec 31, 2014 12:32:18 GMT
And, of course, the last monetary union they were in was wrecked by their antics. Ah the Latin Union, I thought it was also due to Italians debasing their currency? Seriously Greece has had multiple issues with tax collection and collective tax avoidance for years. Until there is a culture where the people pay their taxes and where the tax system is run honestly then there is no chance for the state to run properly. Not just the tax issues, but the use of the State as a cash-cow, not just by an elite but by the population at large. The dominance of Pasok wasn't due to a widely-held commitment to socialist politics (then again, nor was being a Pasok politician), and New Democracy weren't a coherent right-wing party in any sense either: they were repeatedly voted in by the electorate because they would shovel the pork. Like a rubbish version of Japan. The Greeks, more than any of Europe's other hypocritical electorates (including our own), seem to be communists when they want something from society, and libertarians when society needs something in return. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Dec 31, 2014 12:33:10 GMT
Ah the Latin Union, I thought it was also due to Italians debasing their currency? Seriously Greece has had multiple issues with tax collection and collective tax avoidance for years. Until there is a culture where the people pay their taxes and where the tax system is run honestly then there is no chance for the state to run properly. You're correct (Vatican I think?) but it was the Greeks who got kicked out, later being readmitted. What actually screwed it was the badly set conversion rate between gold and silver that was exploited (frequently by German merchants). I didn't know that. Bimetallism- the scourge of the nineteenth century political scene. |
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Post by Devonian on Jan 1, 2015 12:39:54 GMT
Two opinion polls here. The first one from the University of Macedonia, fieldwork carried out 28-30 December, in other words the fieldwork was carried out partly after the election was called SYRIZA 29.5% New Democracy 25% Golden Dawn 6% To Potami 5% KKE 5% PASOK 4% Independent Greeks 2% Anti-Capitalist Left 1% DIMAR 0.5% Other 5.5% DK/Refused 12% www.eklogika.gr/uploads/files/Dimoskopiseis/skai-pamak_30-12-14.pdf(do follow the link on this one as it has some interesting graphics and data tables) Other poll is from Interview, fieldwork carried out 30-31 Dec, in other words entirely after the election was called SYRIZA 27.4% New Democracy 25.1% Golden Dawn 5% To Potami 5% KKE 5% PASOK 4.9% Independent Greeks 2% DIMAR 0.7% www.eklogika.gr/news/25301(I can't find the data tables for this one so don't know how Other and DK/Refused break down) |
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Post by bolbridge on Jan 1, 2015 12:56:18 GMT
Two opinion polls here. The first one from the University of Macedonia, fieldwork carried out 28-30 December, in other words the fieldwork was carried out party after the election was called SYRIZA 29.5% New Democracy 25% Golden Dawn 6% To Potami 5% KKE 5% PASOK 4% Independent Greeks 2% Anti-Capitalist Left 1% DIMAR 0.5% Other 5.5% DK/Refused 12% www.eklogika.gr/uploads/files/Dimoskopiseis/skai-pamak_30-12-14.pdf(do follow the link on this one as it has some interesting graphics and data tables) Other poll is from Interview, fieldwork carried out 30-31 Dec, in other words entirely after the election was called SYRIZA 27.4% New Democracy 25.1% Golden Dawn 5% To Potami 5% KKE 5% PASOK 4.9% Independent Greeks 2% DIMAR 0.7% www.eklogika.gr/news/25301(I can't find the data tables for this one so don't know how Other and DK/Refused break down) Those gaps are relatively small - I suspect fear of the unknown will push ND past SYRIZA. |
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Post by Devonian on Jan 2, 2015 13:42:53 GMT
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 2, 2015 18:50:03 GMT
Hahahahahahahaha. What's the Greek for "brass neck"? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2015 21:41:52 GMT
Hahahahahahahaha. What's the Greek for "brass neck"? Papandreou, I think. |
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Post by finsobruce on Jan 2, 2015 21:58:49 GMT
Hahahahahahahaha. What's the Greek for "brass neck"? I can't find an exact match, but this Greek saying seems apposite: He licks where he used to spit. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 2, 2015 22:07:40 GMT
Man with white moustache? Check. Appeal to the workers? Check. Claims to represent change despite being the total embodiment of the Establishment? Check. I'll save him the bother of making a new poster.  |
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