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Post by Arthur Figgis on Jan 26, 2015 13:06:01 GMT
Sobering figures: Golden Dawn: 17 seats PASOK: 13 seats Sobering for PASOK, certainly. Maybe it might have been for the best if Papandreou's outfit had finally put them out of their misery. Syriza will be a de facto PASOK (though hopefully more principled and nowhere near as corrupt) not that long from now - you heard it here first  That would make them not at all like PASOK then. |
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Post by Arthur Figgis on Jan 26, 2015 13:08:59 GMT
Syriza's first act in power appears to have been to kill Demis Roussos. They obviously didn't want to listen to that fat Greek caterwauling all night. |
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mboy
Liberal
Listen. Think. Speak.
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Post by mboy on Jan 26, 2015 13:22:52 GMT
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2015 15:58:30 GMT
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mboy
Liberal
Listen. Think. Speak.
Posts: 23,761
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Post by mboy on Jan 26, 2015 16:27:59 GMT
Good article. What I would add is that his outcome iii - Syriza plays the “madman strategy” and gets given meaningful concessions to keep it in the Euro - simply leads to the quick election of similar movements in Portugal, Spain, Italy, etc and even bigger demands for even bigger debt write-offs. IMO this kicks the issue down the road a couple of years but is more dangerous for the Euro in the long run.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 26, 2015 19:08:06 GMT
I've just noticed from a graph that Greek national debt as a percentage of GDP was under 50% in 1977, 100% in 1991, and 150% in 2007 before the crisis kicked in. In fact, this article makes it clear that it was already over 110% by the end of the Athens Olympics: www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-08-02/how-the-2004-olympics-triggered-greeces-declineThis is the behaviour that needs to be addressed. Greece was already under EU financial monitoring in 2005, so rubbish about "banksters" does not fly. |
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Post by dizz on Jan 26, 2015 19:32:26 GMT
There is now a coalition between SYRIZA and ANEL according to reports from Athens. Given how quick the meeting was anyone would think this might have been drawn up beforehand. A good friend told me that SYRIZA also spoke to Golden Dawn, but that Golden Dawn pulled back as they weren't prepared to countenance anything including ANEL. |
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 16,036
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Post by Sibboleth on Jan 26, 2015 19:35:05 GMT
But are they really "far right" as the BBC have just claimed? Yes, although they aren't fascists. |
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Post by No Offence Alan on Jan 26, 2015 20:09:58 GMT
Interesting that Syrzia win the forum poll. I'm guessing that their support here has come from left-wing Labour posters, Green/Nationalist posters, but crucially from UKIP posters who share none of their values but hope they will lead to the collapse of the Euro... I voted for them, on the "be careful what you wish for" principle. |
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Post by finsobruce on Jan 26, 2015 21:16:33 GMT
are any of these Greek parties remotely right wing liberal on economics and society? I thought To Potami were sort of like the SDP - not sure if that's what you mean. Devilwincarnate might know more as he was keen on them in the run up.... |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 26, 2015 21:47:05 GMT
are any of these Greek parties remotely right wing liberal on economics and society? I thought To Potami were sort of like the SDP - not sure if that's what you mean. Devilwincarnate might know more as he was keen on them in the run up.... They're definitely more SDPish than anything else. My enthusiasm for them was based on them not being any of the others! |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 26, 2015 21:48:10 GMT
There is now a coalition between SYRIZA and ANEL according to reports from Athens. Given how quick the meeting was anyone would think this might have been drawn up beforehand. A good friend told me that SYRIZA also spoke to Golden Dawn, but that Golden Dawn pulled back as they weren't prepared to countenance anything including ANEL. I bet Syriza speaking to Golden Dawn will swiftly be forgotten by the Tsipras hagiographers tomorrow. No Platform Unless We Decide That There Is! |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jan 26, 2015 21:59:33 GMT
Tsipras has already been down to lay flowers on a memorial to Greek Commie resistance fighters killed by Germans...
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Post by Devonian on Jan 26, 2015 22:09:40 GMT
There is now a coalition between SYRIZA and ANEL according to reports from Athens. Given how quick the meeting was anyone would think this might have been drawn up beforehand. A good friend told me that SYRIZA also spoke to Golden Dawn, but that Golden Dawn pulled back as they weren't prepared to countenance anything including ANEL. They should be more open minded about people's sexuality. |
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Post by Merseymike on Jan 26, 2015 22:33:03 GMT
The problem I have with Syriza is that, despite not being corrupt like ND and Pasok (well, they've not had the chance), they are pandering to the electorate in the same way that the Celtic and Rangers of Greek politics did: telling them that the State can be endlessly munificent, forget where the money might actually come from. Sadly, they are looking like a better option because nobody is standing up and saying that Greece needs two things: weaning itself off the teat of an unsustainable State apparatus, and for everyone to pay their taxes. Syriza are, to their credit, able to articulate the latter. The country with the most useful ethnically Greek politicians at the moment is probably Australia. I think they need a more effective state. Not the neoliberal privatisation failure pursued elsewhere. |
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Post by Merseymike on Jan 26, 2015 22:34:59 GMT
Sobering figures: Golden Dawn: 17 seats PASOK: 13 seats Sobering for PASOK, certainly. Maybe it might have been for the best if Papandreou's outfit had finally put them out of their misery. Syriza will be a de facto PASOK (though hopefully more principled and nowhere near as corrupt) not that long from now - you heard it here first Well, most of PASOK has joined Syriza, including their main academic advisors |
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Post by Merseymike on Jan 26, 2015 22:35:58 GMT
There is now a coalition between SYRIZA and ANEL according to reports from Athens. Given how quick the meeting was anyone would think this might have been drawn up beforehand. A good friend told me that SYRIZA also spoke to Golden Dawn, but that Golden Dawn pulled back as they weren't prepared to countenance anything including ANEL. There is absolutely no possibility of this being so. |
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neilm
Non-Aligned
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Post by neilm on Jan 26, 2015 22:45:00 GMT
The problem I have with Syriza is that, despite not being corrupt like ND and Pasok (well, they've not had the chance), they are pandering to the electorate in the same way that the Celtic and Rangers of Greek politics did: telling them that the State can be endlessly munificent, forget where the money might actually come from. Sadly, they are looking like a better option because nobody is standing up and saying that Greece needs two things: weaning itself off the teat of an unsustainable State apparatus, and for everyone to pay their taxes. Syriza are, to their credit, able to articulate the latter. The country with the most useful ethnically Greek politicians at the moment is probably Australia. I think they need a more effective state. Not the neoliberal privatisation failure pursued elsewhere. The Greeks need a working state apparatus. I've worked in more efficient third world places. This has nothing to do with neoliberalism. |
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Post by Merseymike on Jan 26, 2015 22:53:44 GMT
I think they need a more effective state. Not the neoliberal privatisation failure pursued elsewhere. The Greeks need a working state apparatus. I've worked in more efficient third world places. This has nothing to do with neoliberalism. I don't disagree, but obviously my idea of the sort of state I would like to see is closer to that of Syriza. At least they will have no truck with corruption, which characterises the way the Greek system has operated. When we visited not one credit card machine worked - and these were upmarket restaurants - and Greek acquaintances have explained how they have had to pay cash in hand to doctors to get decent treatment |
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
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Post by john07 on Jan 26, 2015 22:59:51 GMT
The Greeks need a working state apparatus. I've worked in more efficient third world places. This has nothing to do with neoliberalism. I don't disagree, but obviously my idea of the sort of state I would like to see is closer to that of Syriza. At least they will have no truck with corruption, which characterises the way the Greek system has operated. When we visited not one credit card machine worked - and these were upmarket restaurants..... It's harder to avoid paying VAT if people use credit or debit cards to settle bills. |
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