Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2014 22:13:40 GMT
Never forget that the BBC is virtually through its transmogrification from a renowned Public Service Broadcaster with a mission to explain, inform, educate and create interest, to one of Medya Entertainment of the Base Kind. Election Night is a fun night but only if there is human drama, rough provincials with funny accents stumbling over declarations, and party hacks lured into saying something the circling piranha can get teeth into. The stats and presentation are about impact and drama rather than careful analysis and the search for interesting nuggets. It would be better if the academics and specialists had their own programme hosted by a university and carried by say Channel 4, BBC Parliament or ITV 4. Regular members of this forum doing it via Skype, even.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Dec 15, 2014 22:17:20 GMT
I think some of it was over confident boasting from the graphics department, which for the time must have seemed like pushing the limits of what graphics could do. I have to say that just because they could animate a swingometer moving over and above his head doesn't meat they should have done so.
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Post by andrewteale on Dec 15, 2014 23:02:34 GMT
I want a moderated clear results system, without error, and with superb back-up graphics, aided by appropriate and expert commentary, with additional appropriate material from academics and specialists, and some erudite, witty and pleasant party hacks to leaven the enterprise from time to time. ^^^
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Post by Andrew_S on Dec 16, 2014 1:40:18 GMT
Very few of them - (returning officers)- wear red robes, and I think that was true even back in the 1990s.
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Dec 16, 2014 11:54:40 GMT
I found the results programmes far better in the 1960s and 1970s. In the last twenty years they have increasingly resembled a chat show in format with far too much reliance on gimmicks that do little more than trivialise the occasion. I think the attitude these days is that anyone who's interested in results should look online and use sites like this one, and that the TV coverage should be aimed at people who aren't particularly interested in details, which seems a bit ridiculous to me. For example during the BBC's 2010 election programme, Nick Robinson was constantly being apologetic to viewers about talking about constituency results because (he implied) the average viewer would find them boring. But surely the only people watching at 5 in the morning are precisely those who would be interested in detailed results. I think you're ignoring the key demographic of people playing election drinking games, who by 5am just want something easy to focus on.
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Post by slicesofjim on Dec 16, 2014 16:02:04 GMT
Jeremy Vine is very poor, yes, and I agree with andyajs, the panel parts are extremely tedious. Results, results, results. And decent expert statistical analysis. The trouble is, journalists and other TV people seem to think that they make the programme, but they don't. I remember when there was some criticism of the punditry on Match of the Day, Gary Linekar's rebuttal was that x million people watched the programme. But they watch it because of the highlights in the football, not the ones in Robbie Savage's hair. Same thing for the General Election.
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Harry Hayfield
Green
Cavalier Gentleman (as in 17th century Cavalier)
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Post by Harry Hayfield on Dec 16, 2014 17:03:49 GMT
Some of the Snow graphics were getting a bit silly by the end, if you remember. I am sorry, David, but I must take you to task over this. I grew up with Peter Snow from Election 1992 onwards and was of the opinion that his swansong of the three party battleground from 2005 was a ground breaking graphic. Not only did it show the Liberal Democrats taking votes from everyone (by the movement of icons towards the Liberal Democrats) but it also showed that the Conservatives gaining seats from Labour were due to a Lab to Lib Dem swing (not a direct Lab to Con swing)
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Post by Richard Cromwell on Dec 16, 2014 17:19:21 GMT
"In the midst of the conflagration of war we organized the Red Army and converted our country into a military camp. The spirit of the great Lenin inspired us at that time for the war against the interventionists." - Peter Snow
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 18:27:06 GMT
I like declarations and the way they add some local colour, and occasionally some drama, to the TV coverage. When you watch coverage from other countries (like Canada) it is just politicians and commentators sitting waffling in the studio and is a lot less interesting. That's true. I watched a 2012 French legislative election results programme on YouTube, or rather skipped through it (it lasted about 3 or 4 hours and I'm not a fluent French speaker). It has since been removed. Very few declarations seemed to be broadcast, indeed, I wonder whether they even do them like they do in the UK. All I recall seeing broadcast were concession speeches from Marine Le Pen and Ségolène Royal.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 19:04:21 GMT
American posters from another place were amused to see live results declared with candidates lined up 'like pigs in a country show'
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Post by johnloony on Dec 17, 2014 8:19:06 GMT
The difference between the UK and most other western democracies is that the votes are all collected in one place, counted together, and the total result declared in one go. In the USA (and lots of other places) the votes are counted separately for each polling station, declared in little bits at a time, and added up as you go along. So they don't have the excitement of, or the need for, the candidates to be lined up as if waiting for the guillotine.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
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Post by The Bishop on Dec 17, 2014 11:27:11 GMT
I think that France used to have constituency declarations, but not sure if they still do.
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Harry Hayfield
Green
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Post by Harry Hayfield on Dec 17, 2014 13:18:14 GMT
I think that France used to have constituency declarations, but not sure if they still do. If they do hold constituency declarations then enitherTV5 Monde nor France 24 show them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2014 17:58:50 GMT
The difference between the UK and most other western democracies is that the votes are all collected in one place, counted together, and the total result declared in one go. In the USA (and lots of other places) the votes are counted separately for each polling station, declared in little bits at a time, and added up as you go along. So they don't have the excitement of, or the need for, the candidates to be lined up as if waiting for the guillotine. It's reading that sort of thing that makes me proud to be British. No wonder election nights overseas are so dull. Edit: unless the results from each polling station/ward are published, of course...
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Post by Andrew_S on Dec 17, 2014 18:50:04 GMT
Germany used to have declarations I think because I remember hearing one on the radio when Helmut Kohl lost his constituency seat in 1998. The problem is they wouldn't have the same excitement in that country because the PR system is more important than the constituency results.
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Post by Robert Waller on Dec 17, 2014 20:46:15 GMT
The difference between the UK and most other western democracies is that the votes are all collected in one place, counted together, and the total result declared in one go. In the USA (and lots of other places) the votes are counted separately for each polling station, declared in little bits at a time, and added up as you go along. So they don't have the excitement of, or the need for, the candidates to be lined up as if waiting for the guillotine. It's reading that sort of thing that makes me proud to be British. No wonder election nights overseas are so dull. Edit: unless the results from each polling station/ward are published, of course... Which they usually are, in most of the international elections I follow. For example, in the US, you have the votes for each state or district with, say 53% counted ... and counting ... I actually find this (even) more exciting than UK election nights. It's like following all the football scores of a Saturday afternoon* as they are played - if you are interested in all the games, as I am. *One might quibble that far from all of the Premiership games are on 3 pm on a Saturday nowadays. But that scarcely matters if you are not interested in the Premiership, as I am not.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2014 20:49:33 GMT
What we need is a Eurovision style declaration for each constituency. "This is St Vincent on the Piddle Community College calling, here are the verified counts from our ballot boxes...."
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Post by manchesterman on Dec 20, 2014 1:48:54 GMT
So long as we don't have to suffer a Graham Norton 'sotto voce' commentary through it all!
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Harry Hayfield
Green
Cavalier Gentleman (as in 17th century Cavalier)
Posts: 2,922
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Post by Harry Hayfield on Dec 20, 2014 16:56:18 GMT
What we need is a Eurovision style declaration for each constituency. "This is St Vincent on the Piddle Community College calling, here are the verified counts from our ballot boxes...." That's easily done I say. Electoral Calculus has the estimated ward returns from each constituency in the country (meaning that all it would take it councils to declare a general election by ward and bingo, that could happen)
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maxque
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Post by maxque on Dec 21, 2014 6:45:01 GMT
I like declarations and the way they add some local colour, and occasionally some drama, to the TV coverage. When you watch coverage from other countries (like Canada) it is just politicians and commentators sitting waffling in the studio and is a lot less interesting. That's true. I watched a 2012 French legislative election results programme on YouTube, or rather skipped through it (it lasted about 3 or 4 hours and I'm not a fluent French speaker). It has since been removed. Very few declarations seemed to be broadcast, indeed, I wonder whether they even do them like they do in the UK. All I recall seeing broadcast were concession speeches from Marine Le Pen and Ségolène Royal. In France, each commune counts votes and declares results for the commune. Those are transfered to transfered to the "prefecture" (the central government offices in each department), which transfer them to Interior Ministry once all results for the department are declared.
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