Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2014 14:26:55 GMT
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Post by LDCaerdydd on Sept 29, 2014 15:30:10 GMT
He was hardly going to say 'well yes I am going to defect actually but I'm planning to reveal it at the UKIP conference in a week or two's time so keep it under your hats until then' True, but it makes it very easy to attack him for dishonesty. Exactly. He was proactively denying it on Twitter the day before. He could have ignored those tweets asking if he'd defect. He proactivity promised the Conservatives he'd campaign in Clacton a few days he defected. We still have a massive problem with trust and honesty in British politics. |
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Post by Devonian on Sept 29, 2014 16:21:39 GMT
True, but it makes it very easy to attack him for dishonesty. Exactly. He was proactively denying it on Twitter the day before. He could have ignored those tweets asking if he'd defect. He proactivity promised the Conservatives he'd campaign in Clacton a few days he defected. He couldn't really have ignored those tweets. Ever since Carswell defected the Tories have been keeping a very close eye on all possible defectors. Any possible hesitancy about denying that he was going to defect would have given the game away and given the Tory smear machine a head start. Obviously it doesn't look good that he had to lie like this but actually he didn't have a choice in the circumstances. Seeing Grant Shapps managing to look both sanctimonious and robotic at the same yesterday, giving his well reheased line about Reckless having told some fibs as if neither he nor Cameron ever told a lie didn't give me a great impression of the Tory Party. |
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Post by Devonian on Sept 29, 2014 16:24:22 GMT
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middyman
Conservative
"The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of other people's money."
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Post by middyman on Sept 29, 2014 17:10:02 GMT
He was hardly going to say 'well yes I am going to defect actually but I'm planning to reveal it at the UKIP conference in a week or two's time so keep it under your hats until then' True, but it makes it very easy to attack him for dishonesty. True, but he was faced with a "Have you stopped beating your wife?" question. Whatever answer he gave, he could not win.. |
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Post by No Offence Alan on Sept 29, 2014 17:32:07 GMT
Holly Rae-Smith is intending to stand here for Class War. For which side? |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Sept 29, 2014 17:33:40 GMT
Exactly. He was proactively denying it on Twitter the day before. He could have ignored those tweets asking if he'd defect. He proactivity promised the Conservatives he'd campaign in Clacton a few days he defected. He couldn't really have ignored those tweets. Ever since Carswell defected the Tories have been keeping a very close eye on all possible defectors. Any possible hesitancy about denying that he was going to defect would have given the game away and given the Tory smear machine a head start. Obviously it doesn't look good that he had to lie like this but actually he didn't have a choice in the circumstances. That may apply to the meeting with his association, but no MP is going to get in trouble for ignoring things on Twitter. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2014 17:48:34 GMT
The idea of Reckless being a Traitor etc is a bit over the top.
UKIP and the Conservative right are very similar in policy terms and overlap in many areas. The Conservatives could of held on to their core vote by supporting a referendum in this parliament.
for many former Conservative members like myself Cameron's brand of Conservatism is very much New Labour and of the metropolitan elite.
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Post by finsobruce on Sept 29, 2014 19:00:18 GMT
God help us all if they join forces......  If the leadership of the two parties did want to work together I have a suggestion for an ice breaker at the initial meeting. They could take along a copy of Burke's Peerage to see how closely related they are to one another. There is of course SWP royalty - I went to university with Anna Gluckstein, daughter of Tony Cliff for instance- but that's different to yer actual royalty...  |
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Post by Devonian on Sept 29, 2014 19:04:32 GMT
If the leadership of the two parties did want to work together I have a suggestion for an ice breaker at the initial meeting. They could take along a copy of Burke's Peerage to see how closely related they are to one another. There is of course SWP royalty - I went to university with Anna Gluckstein, daughter of Tony Cliff for instance- but that's different to yer actual royalty... I just find it hilarious that Alex Callinicos' mother was called Hon. Ædgyth Bertha Milburg Mary Antonia Frances Lyon-Dalberg-Acton |
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Post by Devonian on Sept 29, 2014 19:07:35 GMT
If the leadership of the two parties did want to work together I have a suggestion for an ice breaker at the initial meeting. They could take along a copy of Burke's Peerage to see how closely related they are to one another. There is of course SWP royalty - I went to university with Anna Gluckstein, daughter of Tony Cliff for instance- but that's different to yer actual royalty... I remember reading that when the SWP had their recent split over their rape accusation scandal Ms Gluckstein and her elderly mother were brought out to invoke the memory of Tony Cliff and denounce the 'splitters' |
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Post by finsobruce on Sept 29, 2014 19:12:50 GMT
Thinking back we were especially privileged as we also had Weyman Bennett and Paul Foot's son Matt - at the time the most nervous public speaker I've ever seen. Gluckstein wasn't nervous, just terrible.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Sept 29, 2014 21:36:52 GMT
Thinking back we were especially privileged as we also had Weyman Bennett and Paul Foot's son Matt - at the time the most nervous public speaker I've ever seen. Gluckstein wasn't nervous, just terrible. Was this a university Labour club or were you hanging off the Left edge of the world? |
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Post by greenchristian on Sept 29, 2014 21:44:49 GMT
The idea of Reckless being a Traitor etc is a bit over the top. UKIP and the Conservative right are very similar in policy terms and overlap in many areas. The Conservatives could of held on to their core vote by supporting a referendum in this parliament. for many former Conservative members like myself Cameron's brand of Conservatism is very much New Labour and of the metropolitan elite. For many of us on the left, New Labour was basically Thatcherism without the nastiest bits Which makes it very difficult to understand where people like you are coming from. Also, I thought it was fairly well established that the issue that's brought most of the new UKIP voters across is immigration, not Europe. |
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Post by finsobruce on Sept 29, 2014 22:20:13 GMT
Thinking back we were especially privileged as we also had Weyman Bennett and Paul Foot's son Matt - at the time the most nervous public speaker I've ever seen. Gluckstein wasn't nervous, just terrible. Was this a university Labour club or were you hanging off the Left edge of the world? How very dare you! I'm talking about the students union - Matt Foot stood against me for Vice President in my final year. we both lost.  Talking of superstars we also had David Cameron's Red Tory adviser Phil(ip) Blond who in those days was a "socialist" with a mohican. I used to chair the union and he would constantly challenge my rulings. He lost. |
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Merseymike
Independent
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Post by Merseymike on Sept 29, 2014 22:27:40 GMT
I used to know Lord Barnett's (as in Joel ) daughter. She was in Socialist Action. She was also manager of a local voluntary organisation and her management style was entirely Thatcherite and top-down
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Post by finsobruce on Sept 29, 2014 22:32:41 GMT
There is of course SWP royalty - I went to university with Anna Gluckstein, daughter of Tony Cliff for instance- but that's different to yer actual royalty... I just find it hilarious that Alex Callinicos' mother was called Hon. Ædgyth Bertha Milburg Mary Antonia Frances Lyon-Dalberg-Acton And as such a descendent of the most famous Lord Acton. Who must be turning in his grave , but possibly pleased/confused that his most famous dictum has been proved correct by his own family... |
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maxque
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Post by maxque on Sept 29, 2014 22:37:43 GMT
The idea of Reckless being a Traitor etc is a bit over the top. UKIP and the Conservative right are very similar in policy terms and overlap in many areas. The Conservatives could of held on to their core vote by supporting a referendum in this parliament. for many former Conservative members like myself Cameron's brand of Conservatism is very much New Labour and of the metropolitan elite. No, they wouldn't have held their core vote. The Conservative left would leave/vote for LibDems. |
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Sept 30, 2014 1:06:29 GMT
The idea of Reckless being a Traitor etc is a bit over the top. UKIP and the Conservative right are very similar in policy terms and overlap in many areas. The Conservatives could of held on to their core vote by supporting a referendum in this parliament. for many former Conservative members like myself Cameron's brand of Conservatism is very much New Labour and of the metropolitan elite. For many of us on the left, New Labour was basically Thatcherism without the nastiest bits Which makes it very difficult to understand where people like you are coming from. It also makes it very difficult for someone like me to understand where people like you are coming from. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2014 7:26:08 GMT
The idea of Reckless being a Traitor etc is a bit over the top. UKIP and the Conservative right are very similar in policy terms and overlap in many areas. The Conservatives could of held on to their core vote by supporting a referendum in this parliament. for many former Conservative members like myself Cameron's brand of Conservatism is very much New Labour and of the metropolitan elite. No, they wouldn't have held their core vote. The Conservative left would leave/vote for LibDems. I don't think those on the Conservative left would of either left or voted Lib Dem if Cameron offered a referendum this parliament. In the Lib Dem manifesto there was a promise of a referendum on the issue of EU membership. |
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Talking of superstars we also had David Cameron's Red Tory adviser Phil(ip) Blond who in those days was a "socialist" with a mohican. I used to chair the union and he would constantly challenge my rulings. He lost. 
