maxque
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Post by maxque on May 6, 2014 22:25:11 GMT
But they should give a damn about a candidate who has shown indications of sexism, misogyny, homophobia, heteronormalitivity, xenophobia, and plain old ignorance. Far from moving UKIP away from the bar, this choice has them trying to suck mild straight from the taps. And you think this plays badly to our demographic? No, but if you are serious about winning elections (a real election, not some low turnout European election), you must reach outside of your demographic. |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on May 6, 2014 22:40:00 GMT
But they should give a damn about a candidate who has shown indications of sexism, misogyny, homophobia, heteronormalitivity, xenophobia, and plain old ignorance. Far from moving UKIP away from the bar, this choice has them trying to suck mild straight from the taps. And you think this plays badly to our demographic? I think the rape comments could be made to play very badly indeed. Not because the demographic doesn't hold and express such opinions, but because they stand up very poorly to scrutiny. He was saying that it was perfectly understandable that a man, once aroused, would seek to have sex with his partner even without consent. This naturally leads on to the question of what sort of man is aroused by trying to have sex with an unwilling partner and why exactly we should be seeking to excuse such an individual. It's the sort of statement that could pass without comment in any pub in the country, but if you put it under 30 seconds of scrutiny then the same people who would have nodded along to it would become visibly appalled. Of course, to actually get that level of scrutiny would take both a focused and a sensible campaign on the comments. It's more likely that the usual suspects will play offence bingo and hence fail to land a single blow on target. |
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myth11
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Post by myth11 on May 6, 2014 22:48:10 GMT
what odds do i get on Lee Woods of the Patriotic Socialist party
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Post by carlton43 on May 7, 2014 0:32:20 GMT
Well I think you all know that I am not trying to 'validate' nor to excuse the behaviour or utterences of people, only to make a number of observations as to the practical circumstances of voter receptivity and attitudes, because I don't think all of you realize that the whole world is not perceived in your image and against your really very current filter of approved terms for conducting dialogue.
For my part I am usually fairly unconcerned about anything 'said' but much more censorious about actual physical behaviour. In this I am the reverse of most of you. I frankly don't give a toss about what Bloom or Helmer say or said. For me it really does not amount to a hill of beans, because it is just words. But the casual way in which serious sexual acts are overlooked, underinvestigated, swept under carpets and not prosecuted are really serious, yet most of you don't seem to see that the same at all. The Lib Dem record recently on this for me has been an utter disgrace and pushes UKIP bar room banter far far into the background.
Most of you see this differently to me. But I am far from an individual alone out there. That is why UKIP does not suffer in the way you obviously think it should for such transgressions as you see them. You don't understand how I can cheerfully put up with Bloom and Helmer but am quite outraged by a Deputy Speaker given to alcohol-fuelled sprees of licentiouness and disgusting behaviour. We live in different moral worlds that are drawing apart day by day.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2014 2:41:30 GMT
No one gives a toss about anti Catholic bigotry. Not sure I agree with this, and not just because of my background. But they should give a damn about a candidate who has shown indications of sexism, misogyny, homophobia, heteronormalitivity, xenophobia, and plain old ignorance. Far from moving UKIP away from the bar, this choice has them trying to suck mild straight from the taps. Are you saying they shouldn't give a damn about anti-Catholic bigotry? Mr Helmer is a very unpleasant man and I think his selection is indicative of a willingness to adopt a candidate who is high-profile, ignoring the fact that much of what he is high-profile about is pretty shocking. This will work against UKIP and pretty much guarantees a Conservative hold. |
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maxque
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Post by maxque on May 7, 2014 2:48:51 GMT
No one gives a toss about anti Catholic bigotry. I would assume than Catholics care. Roughly 5 millions of persons. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2014 3:08:24 GMT
No one gives a toss about anti Catholic bigotry. Not sure I agree with this, and not just because of my background. But they should give a damn about a candidate who has shown indications of sexism, misogyny, homophobia, heteronormalitivity, xenophobia, and plain old ignorance. Far from moving UKIP away from the bar, this choice has them trying to suck mild straight from the taps. Are you saying they shouldn't give a damn about anti-Catholic bigotry? Mr Helmer is a very unpleasant man and I think his selection is indicative of a willingness to adopt a candidate who is high-profile, ignoring the fact that much of what he is high-profile about is pretty shocking. This will work against UKIP and pretty much guarantees a Conservative hold. Sorry if the 'but' gave the wrong impression (late night watching Eurovision, you know). I hope the content of the paragraph was enough to indicate that I'm with you on finding him fair!y disagreeable from every angle. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2014 3:19:08 GMT
No problem....just woke early myself. Going to try grab another couple of hours.
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neilm
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Post by neilm on May 7, 2014 9:03:03 GMT
I should clarify what I meant about anti Catholic bigotry- I don't think it really exists in any meaningful way outside of certain parts of Scotland and in Northern Ireland. It certainly isn't an issue in England.
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Richard Allen
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Post by Richard Allen on May 7, 2014 9:24:23 GMT
I should clarify what I meant about anti Catholic bigotry- I don't think it really exists in any meaningful way outside of certain parts of Scotland and in Northern Ireland. It certainly isn't an issue in England. Indeed, it is the hobby of an incredibly small minority. I did once come across a member of UKIP who was seemingly convinced that Britain had been effectively run by the Catholic church ever since the Treaty of Verona in 1213 and that "Roman Legal Law" must be abolished and that only Common Law was legitimate. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2014 9:37:41 GMT
I should clarify what I meant about anti Catholic bigotry- I don't think it really exists in any meaningful way outside of certain parts of Scotland and in Northern Ireland. It certainly isn't an issue in England. Indeed, it is the hobby of an incredibly small minority. I did once come across a member of UKIP who was seemingly convinced that Britain had been effectively run by the Catholic church ever since the Treaty of Verona in 1213 and that "Roman Legal Law" must be abolished and that only Common Law was legitimate. Well, you learn something every day. I googled 'Verona 1213' expecting Wikipedia to be the top suggestion but instead get a whole raft of fruit loops claiming the pope owns the world as there is a treaty & contract that hasn't been rescinded. Bonkers, the lot of them..... |
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Post by carlton43 on May 7, 2014 9:49:49 GMT
Indeed, it is the hobby of an incredibly small minority. I did once come across a member of UKIP who was seemingly convinced that Britain had been effectively run by the Catholic church ever since the Treaty of Verona in 1213 and that "Roman Legal Law" must be abolished and that only Common Law was legitimate. Well, you learn something every day. I googled 'Verona 1213' expecting Wikipedia to be the top suggestion but instead get a whole raft of fruit loops claiming the pope owns the world as there is a treaty & contract that hasn't been rescinded. Bonkers, the lot of them..... Ah! You have probably never lived in a 'Roman' country. It is not completely mad. When my parents moved back to the N. Yorks Moors in the 60s the local Anglican cleric called to introduce himself and to ascertain their persuasion. "Oh thank God you are not Romans" he said " the dale is a hot bed of recusants and dissenters and I despair of our survival". It runs deep. As a young man late 60s early 70s, I liked to attend Lewes Bonfire Night with the rolling of lighted tar barrels through the crowds and the burning of a life-size Pope in full regalia on top of the fire. That was very far from all being in fun I can assure you. |
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neilm
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Post by neilm on May 7, 2014 9:50:14 GMT
I've never heard of that treaty. Can be my reading matter later.
I do say 'hotbed of recusancy' periodically just because I like saying it. That carries undertones of anti Catholicism I guess.
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on May 7, 2014 9:52:08 GMT
Are you saying they shouldn't give a damn about anti-Catholic bigotry? Mr Helmer is a very unpleasant man and I think his selection is indicative of a willingness to adopt a candidate who is high-profile, ignoring the fact that much of what he is high-profile about is pretty shocking. This will work against UKIP and pretty much guarantees a Conservative hold. The only way the Tories are ever going to lose here is in a fairly close 3-way fight (a la Eastleigh) Helmer's selection has not altered that. |
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maxque
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Post by maxque on May 7, 2014 9:55:18 GMT
I've never heard of that treaty. Can be my reading matter later. I do say 'hotbed of recusancy' periodically just because I like saying it. That carries undertones of anti Catholicism I guess. That treaty doesn't exist, it seems. Or according to the conspiracy theorists, it exists, but it's secret, so official information sources aren't about it and they are the only ones daring to talk about that scandalous secret. Sometimes, I wonder if the mental care provision should be improved. Something must have went wrong with their mind somewhere. |
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Post by carlton43 on May 7, 2014 9:57:28 GMT
Wow! Two posts at the same moment both using the phrase 'hot bed of recusancy' or similar. That is so unlikely.
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Post by carlton43 on May 7, 2014 9:59:02 GMT
I've never heard of that treaty. Can be my reading matter later. I do say 'hotbed of recusancy' periodically just because I like saying it. That carries undertones of anti Catholicism I guess. That treaty doesn't exist, it seems. Or according to the conspiracy theorists, it exists, but it's secret, so official information sources aren't about it and they are the only ones daring to talk about that scandalous secret. Sometimes, I wonder if the mental care provision should be improved. Something must have went wrong with their mind somewhere. 'Must have went...'! I don't think so. |
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maxque
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Post by maxque on May 7, 2014 10:02:53 GMT
That treaty doesn't exist, it seems. Or according to the conspiracy theorists, it exists, but it's secret, so official information sources aren't about it and they are the only ones daring to talk about that scandalous secret. Sometimes, I wonder if the mental care provision should be improved. Something must have went wrong with their mind somewhere. 'Must have went...'! I don't think so. Well, I doubt it's a good life. Society ostracise you and conspiracy theorists usually come up with a lot of paranoia. But perhaps it's my naivety of thinking than people are born naturally good. |
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Post by vertex on May 7, 2014 10:13:38 GMT
Thanks Robin. I googled that. Wow. In the midst of the sanitised internet that most people click on you forget there are some real loons out there that have as much chance to expound their insane views as anyone else. Glorious.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2014 10:25:33 GMT
I've never heard of that treaty. Can be my reading matter later. I do say 'hotbed of recusancy' periodically just because I like saying it. That carries undertones of anti Catholicism I guess. That treaty doesn't exist, it seems. Or according to the conspiracy theorists, it exists, but it's secret, so official information sources aren't about it and they are the only ones daring to talk about that scandalous secret. Sometimes, I wonder if the mental care provision should be improved. Something must have went wrong with their mind somewhere. You need to remember that t'internet IS mental health provision. As we type away with our conspiracy theories for thousands & thousands of words it keeps us off the streets. Well, works for me. .... |
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