Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2014 21:38:59 GMT
It is a ludicrous rule and very anti democratic. You could imagine a situation where we had a Conservative prime minister and he had 30 Eurosceptic MEPs and they were not allowed to be a group even though their votes might be decisive in lots of votes but they had no other group to join. In Westminster (not somewhere I regularly praise) we don't say that PC have to to have say 20 seats before they get recognition. I think it is a group if it has 2 seats. Biggest factor is probably the lack guaranteed speaking time and financial support. I do wonder if there wouldn't be a way for parties to join together in a technical group and split resources. This is loosely the arrangement in the Scottish Parliament (Greens + Margo + 2 SNP defectors) as they require 5 members to create a group - translated to EP terms that would be almost 30! |
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Post by erlend on Feb 20, 2014 22:37:57 GMT
A number of small parties tried that and the authorities right up to an appeal to the ECJ said it did not have ideological coherence and could be banned. I think if size is an issue it would not be proportional but should increase gradually with the size of a parliament. If one used the square root rule that would mean a group of about 12.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2014 23:11:41 GMT
A number of small parties tried that and the authorities right up to an appeal to the ECJ said it did not have ideological coherence and could be banned. I think if size is an issue it would not be proportional but should increase gradually with the size of a parliament. If one used the square root rule that would mean a group of about 12. Oh that's interesting. Seems like a weak explanation to me.. the EFD only votes together on ~50% of issues - coherent! |
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J.G.Harston
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Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
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Post by J.G.Harston on Feb 20, 2014 23:29:29 GMT
It is a ludicrous rule and very anti democratic. You could imagine a situation where we had a Conservative prime minister and he had 30 Eurosceptic MEPs and they were not allowed to be a group even though their votes might be decisive in lots of votes but they had no other group to join. In Westminster (not somewhere I regularly praise) we don't say that PC have to to have say 20 seats before they get recognition. I think it is a group if it has 2 seats. Most councils only recognise a Group if it has 10% or more of the council members. Below that size it can be a group, but not a Group. There was a small storm in North Yorkshire last year when the rules were bent to let Labour be a Group by rounding their 7/72 up to 10%. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 20, 2014 23:37:53 GMT
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Post by erlend on Feb 20, 2014 23:57:02 GMT
There are odd little rules over things luke political assistants that can kick in at 10%. And they are not supposed to be fudged.
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 14,781
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Post by J.G.Harston on Feb 21, 2014 0:54:08 GMT
North Yorkshire County Council Constitution: Leaders of Political Groups: Where group is second party in terms of group membership Other parties, where the group has 10% of the membership (and where there is more than one such group, the allowance shall be shared between them equally) 4,632 2,316 Secretaries of Political Groups Where group is first party in terms of group membership Where group is second party in terms of group membership Other parties, where the group over 10% of the membership (and where there is more than one such group, the allowance shall be shared between them equally) 2,316 1,544 772 (* 10% to be interpreted as 7 in number) A group of 2 can be recognised as a group, but a council can (it appears) chose not to give that group Group prividledges. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 21, 2014 9:10:55 GMT
That's talking about allowances for group officers, not recognition of the groups themselves (including entitlement to committee seats).
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maxque
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Post by maxque on Feb 21, 2014 12:59:32 GMT
Well, it's the same thing in European Parliament. NI members have committee seats.
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Post by erlend on Feb 22, 2014 19:46:36 GMT
I assume they might not get to decide which members get those seats.
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Post by Devonian on Mar 14, 2014 17:02:21 GMT
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Mar 14, 2014 19:06:33 GMT
I had to look up Nouvelle Donne, Force Vie, and Europe Citoyenne.
The first is seemingly another flavour of Trot, the second is a vehicle for the awful Christine Boutin, and I cannot find much on the latter but I have my suspicions.
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Post by iainbhx on Mar 14, 2014 20:21:10 GMT
I had to look up Nouvelle Donne, Force Vie, and Europe Citoyenne. The first is seemingly another flavour of Trot, the second is a vehicle for the awful Christine Boutin, and I cannot find much on the latter but I have my suspicions. 1) Not just Trots, but very middle-class Trots with trust funds. Think of "It's Grim Up North London" from Private Eye. 2) Oh, her. Yuck. 3) Appears to be a vehicle for Gérard Caudron, |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Mar 14, 2014 21:13:49 GMT
I had to look up Nouvelle Donne, Force Vie, and Europe Citoyenne. The first is seemingly another flavour of Trot, the second is a vehicle for the awful Christine Boutin, and I cannot find much on the latter but I have my suspicions. 1) Not just Trots, but very middle-class Trots with trust funds. Think of "It's Grim Up North London" from Private Eye. 2) Oh, her. Yuck. 3) Appears to be a vehicle for Gérard Caudron, 1. I've now looked up Larrouturou. Even when I was most obsessed with French politics, I'd never encountered him. He sounds like an egomaniac nightmare. Or a poor man's Chevenement. If those two concepts actually differ. 2. Indeed, awful, awful, awful. At least Frigide Bardot has a sense of humour. 3. I didn't know Caudron was still going! It has also made me wonder (and I suspect that this is up your street, Iain)- remember Sabine Herold and Edouard Fillias? |
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maxque
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Post by maxque on Mar 14, 2014 21:25:08 GMT
Caudron is still the mayor of Villeneuve-d'Ascq, a big suburb of Lille.
No clue about what happened to Herold, but her party, Alternative Libérale, merged into Nouveau Centre in 2011 (which itself merged into UDI).
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Mar 15, 2014 9:37:11 GMT
Off on a tangent but Nicolas Anelka has been sacked by West Brom, after all of the fallout from his support of obvious arsehole former political candidate Dieudonne.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Mar 22, 2014 16:18:46 GMT
More minor party news- we've got militant Esperantists standing again!
In other major political news, a firefighter in Grenoble refused to shake Manuel Valls's hand. What is it about French politicians and minor quarrels about shaking hands?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2014 12:21:59 GMT
More minor party news- we've got militant Esperantists standing again! The internal politics of the Esperanto Movement are fascinating and bizarre. I'm guessing they're militant finvenkists rather than militant Raumists? |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Mar 23, 2014 12:37:27 GMT
More minor party news- we've got militant Esperantists standing again! The internal politics of the Esperanto Movement are fascinating and bizarre. I'm guessing they're militant finvenkists rather than militant Raumists? It's this gang apparently: e-d-e.org/?lang=enI might start an Esperanto thread... |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Mar 23, 2014 15:07:54 GMT
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