Dunfermline

[Deleted]

Well it didn't work, did it?

[The Bishop]

Might have been worse for them without it.....

[East Anglian Lefty]

I doubt it. What could he do in the last few hours?

[The Bishop]

Maybe you should ask him that

[East Anglian Lefty]

I figure polling day is all about mobilising identified support. If they need Alec Salmond to knock on their door at 8pm to get them to vote, they're not supporters in any meaningful way. I think there's a much simpler explanation, that Salmond's handlers are far too willing to assume it'll turn out all right on the night.

[Devonian]

I think there is definitely potential for UKIP to grow in Scotalnd and their vote share is certainly increasing (from a very low base). I suspect there are two main problems that are causing its growth to decline. One is that the decline of the Tory party has happened much earlier and has gone much further in Scotland, whilst the SNP rose. The resulting four party politics leaves less space for a party like UKIP.

Another problem is a lack of party speakers who are good with the media. In England you have a number of UKIP people who are good at communicating with the media - Farage, Paul Nuttall, Diane James, Patrick O'Flynn, Steve Crowther, David Coburn (who is of course Scottish himself), Stuart Agnew etc. (as for what other qualities each of these people have I'm not able to judge but my point is they're all good with the media). In Scotland there is a lack of such people and instead you have the likes of Viscount Monckton.

This in turn feeds the perception of UKIP as an English party which doesn't help at all. UKIP is certainly growing - they got 0.6% in the Dunfermline and West Fife by-election in 2006, 1.3% in the same seat in the 2010 general election and 3.75% in this election - but to do better they have to be better with the Scottish media.

[Devonian]

Oct 27, 2013 6:17:49 GMT @boogieeck said:

UKIP are a Farage fan club, and would have done better had Farage strode the streets of Dunfermeline.

Not sure if I agree with this. I don't think the very South east English Farage turning up in Donside and doing things like, in one TV interview, forgetting the name of the 1967 Hamilton by election and calling it 'the Stirling By election' exactly helps their image as an 'English party' or helped their Donside vote. What they need to do better is better Scottish spokesmen. I think picking David Coburn as their lead candidate for 2014 is a good start but we shall see how it goes.

[greenchristian]

Oct 27, 2013 6:22:22 GMT @boogieeck said:

It is hard to see who is going to vote Yes who is not already voting SNP.

The SNP aren't the only pro-independence party in Scotland, you know...

[AdminSTB]

Slightly relevant so I might as well post here, I've just added the 1974 Fife Regional Council elections to Scottish Elections.

www.scottishelections.org.uk/scotland/lold/1974/fife.php

[Deleted]

Oct 28, 2013 16:25:38 GMT greenchristian said:

Oct 27, 2013 6:22:22 GMT @boogieeck said:

It is hard to see who is going to vote Yes who is not already voting SNP.

The SNP aren't the only pro-independence party in Scotland, you know...

Or you could say the Green Party has the national question hanging around its neck like a millstone ensuring it will never access the full support from a natural base divided on this singular issue and in supporting the patriarchal concept of bourgeois nationalism have driven a chasm between themselves and the progressive sections of the working class. You could say that, but probably wont.

[greenchristian]

Oct 28, 2013 18:22:38 GMT @jimboo said:

Oct 28, 2013 16:25:38 GMT greenchristian said:

The SNP aren't the only pro-independence party in Scotland, you know...

Or you could say the Green Party has the national question hanging around its neck like a millstone ensuring it will never access the full support from a natural base divided on this singular issue and in supporting the patriarchal concept of bourgeois nationalism have driven a chasm between themselves and the progressive sections of the working class. You could say that, but probably wont.

Since I don't think or talk in Marxist jargon, I expect not.

[Deleted]

Oct 28, 2013 18:42:40 GMT greenchristian said:

Oct 28, 2013 18:22:38 GMT @jimboo said:

Or you could say the Green Party has the national question hanging around its neck like a millstone ensuring it will never access the full support from a natural base divided on this singular issue and in supporting the patriarchal concept of bourgeois nationalism have driven a chasm between themselves and the progressive sections of the working class. You could say that, but probably wont.

Since I don't think or talk in Marxist jargon, I expect not.

You could say that a lot of Scottish People wont vote Green because they are a Nationalist Party, if after defeat in the coming Referendum they open up membership to non nationalists their support should increase dramatically. :-)

[AdminSTB]

I don't remember having to tick a box saying "I am a Nationalist" when filling out a Green Party membership form. Either time.

Indeed, since I have become an actual Nationalist, they seem less likely than ever to actually want me back again.

[Deleted]

Oct 28, 2013 18:51:11 GMT AdminSTB said:

I don't remember having to tick a box saying "I am a Nationalist" when filling out a Green Party membership form. Either time.

Indeed, since I have become an actual Nationalist, they seem less likely than ever to actually want me back again.

Yep but I do remember Harvey saying on TV "we are a Nationalist Party",quite sure of that.

[Deleted]

In fact, we have many members who do not support independence, including at least two councillors. Robin Harper is at most neutral these days too.

[Deleted]

Oct 28, 2013 19:22:04 GMT A Brown said:

The Scottish Green Party is just ginger dressing for the SNP.

www.betternation.org/2013/10/the-benefits-of-a-unified-government/

James Mackenzie speaks for himself, not for the party. I think it's fair to say that he likes to be provocative.

[Deleted]

The Scottish Greens are on the whole bad at winning elections, UKIP and every other party in Scotland bar four are even worse.

[AdminSTB]

Pretty sure Harvie would be more likely to say "we are not a nationalist party". Harvie has spent the last decade insisting that he's not a nationalist.

[Deleted]

Oct 28, 2013 21:29:40 GMT AdminSTB said:

Pretty sure Harvie would be more likely to say "we are not a nationalist party". Harvie has spent the last decade insisting that he's not a nationalist.

Yourprobably right.

[greenchristian]

To sum up the last few posts: my Scottish colleagues are not nationalists, but enough of them support Scottish independence (presumably on pragmatic grounds) that it is their official policy.