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Post by samdwebber on Sept 9, 2022 9:43:00 GMT
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Post by LDCaerdydd on Sept 9, 2022 18:07:00 GMT
Can someone explain that to me? What happens to the ‘old’ LGC?
Does this rotation only occur following the demise of the Crown?
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Post by John Chanin on Sept 9, 2022 18:55:35 GMT
Can someone explain that to me? What happens to the ‘old’ LGC? Does this rotation only occur following the demise of the Crown? The old Lord Great Chamberlain is ceremonially executed. |
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neilm
Non-Aligned
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Post by neilm on Sept 9, 2022 18:59:10 GMT
Can someone explain that to me? What happens to the ‘old’ LGC? Does this rotation only occur following the demise of the Crown? Yes, three families have 'rights' to it. The Marquesses Choldmondley have it two out of every four monarchs with the other two families getting on rotation. There are multiple 'percentages' held all over the place. Does the 7th Marquess of Choldmondley now lose his seat in the HoL (as he would have prior to 1999 if he wasn't the LGC) or will he get a life peerage? |
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timmullen1
Labour
Closing account as BossMan declines to respond to messages seeking support.
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Post by timmullen1 on Sept 9, 2022 19:08:58 GMT
Can someone explain that to me? What happens to the ‘old’ LGC? Does this rotation only occur following the demise of the Crown? Yes, three families have 'rights' to it. The Marquesses Choldmondley have it two out of every four monarchs with the other two families getting on rotation. There are multiple 'percentages' held all over the place. Does the 7th Marquess of Choldmondley now lose his seat in the HoL (as he would have prior to 1999 if he wasn't the LGC) or will he get a life peerage? As there’s a by-election I presume he could run in that, maybe unopposed given the somewhat special circumstances? |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Sept 9, 2022 19:23:56 GMT
Can someone explain that to me? What happens to the ‘old’ LGC? Does this rotation only occur following the demise of the Crown? The old Lord Great Chamberlain is ceremonially executed. I do hope not. We are hoping to visit his garden next week and wouldn't want it to be covered in blood. |
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maxque
Non-Aligned
Posts: 9,299
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Post by maxque on Sept 9, 2022 23:23:34 GMT
Can someone explain that to me? What happens to the ‘old’ LGC? Does this rotation only occur following the demise of the Crown? Yes, three families have 'rights' to it. The Marquesses Choldmondley have it two out of every four monarchs with the other two families getting on rotation. There are multiple 'percentages' held all over the place. Does the 7th Marquess of Choldmondley now lose his seat in the HoL (as he would have prior to 1999 if he wasn't the LGC) or will he get a life peerage? Adding to the wierdess of it, Lord Carrington has 0% of the title (it's held by other members of his family, but they can decide to choose whoever they want). The reason why it's divided is because of the rules about succession. It's the usual male primogeniture rule, but with a twist. If the heirs are only women, the title is split equally between each one. There is currently 1x 1/2, 3x 1/20, 3x 1/60 and 5x 1/100, it seems. Now is the turn of the descendants of the Marquess of Lincolnshire (Carrington). The other family with a 1/4 of it are the descendants of the Earl of Ancaster. Both are descendants of the Barons Willoughby de Eresby. |
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neilm
Non-Aligned
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Post by neilm on Sept 9, 2022 23:52:03 GMT
Yes, three families have 'rights' to it. The Marquesses Choldmondley have it two out of every four monarchs with the other two families getting on rotation. There are multiple 'percentages' held all over the place. Does the 7th Marquess of Choldmondley now lose his seat in the HoL (as he would have prior to 1999 if he wasn't the LGC) or will he get a life peerage? Adding to the wierdess of it, Lord Carrington has 0% of the title (it's held by other members of his family, but they can decide to choose whoever they want). The reason why it's divided is because of the rules about succession. It's the usual male primogeniture rule, but with a twist. If the heirs are only women, the title is split equally between each one. There is currently 1x 1/2, 3x 1/20, 3x 1/60 and 5x 1/100, it seems. Now is the turn of the descendants of the Marquess of Lincolnshire (Carrington). The other family with a 1/4 of it are the descendants of the Earl of Ancaster. Both are descendants of the Barons Willoughby de Eresby. I'd forgotten that they can appoint a deputy. Ridiculous. |
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 12,005
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Post by Khunanup on Sept 10, 2022 5:21:09 GMT
It's an interesting one because both the Earl Marshal (which is the Duke of Norfolk in perpetuity) and the Lord Great Chamberlain actually have operational jobs which are/can be time consuming potentially costly and it certainly helps to have some good working knowledge of Westminster. It's unpaid.
Thus the ability of the effective shareholders in this case to appoint who they like is very handy as none of them have any practical political experience within the Palace so appointing their relative who does, alongside that he's an active crossbench peer already therefore he can properly make the position at least a paid one (though in his case I doubt he is in need of the cash), solves that issue and also avoids what would otherwise turn out to be a massive family bunfight...
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Post by 🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️ on Sept 10, 2022 18:08:41 GMT
We really need to get rid of this daughters of peers getting percentages thing. In a world where Princess Charlotte outranks Prince Louis, this nonsense needs to end. But separate from this, the roles of Lord Great Chamberlain and Earl Marshal ought to be removed from being connected to specific peerages and become government appointments, just as Lord Privy Seal is.
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 12,005
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Post by Khunanup on Sept 10, 2022 22:25:49 GMT
When you put it that way I see the benefits Perhaps this system should to be rolled out to other positions such as Secretary of State for Work and Pensions Anything that would give some stability in the department and someone who has any idea what they're doing in the biggest spend department (that only coalition was able to do otherwise) would be entirely welcome... |
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 12,005
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Post by Khunanup on Sept 10, 2022 22:29:36 GMT
We really need to get rid of this daughters of peers getting percentages thing. In a world where Princess Charlotte outranks Prince Louis, this nonsense needs to end. But separate from this, the roles of Lord Great Chamberlain and Earl Marshal ought to be removed from being connected to specific peerages and become government appointments, just as Lord Privy Seal is. I understand you're a fan of our hereditary monarchy. |
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Post by greatkingrat on Sept 11, 2022 9:52:09 GMT
Can someone explain that to me? What happens to the ‘old’ LGC? Does this rotation only occur following the demise of the Crown? Yes, three families have 'rights' to it. The Marquesses Choldmondley have it two out of every four monarchs with the other two families getting on rotation. There are multiple 'percentages' held all over the place. Does the 7th Marquess of Choldmondley now lose his seat in the HoL (as he would have prior to 1999 if he wasn't the LGC) or will he get a life peerage? The House of Lords Act 1999 says 2 Exception from section 1. (1)Section 1 shall not apply in relation to anyone excepted from it by or in accordance with Standing Orders of the House. (2)At any one time 90 people shall be excepted from section 1; but anyone excepted as holder of the office of Earl Marshal, or as performing the office of Lord Great Chamberlain, shall not count towards that limit. (3)Once excepted from section 1, a person shall continue to be so throughout his life (until an Act of Parliament provides to the contrary). That seems to be imply that the Marquess of Cholmondeley will remain a member as well as Lord Carrington. The current Marquess is 62, so there is a decent chance he will outlive King Charles and regain the title under King William. |
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Post by 🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️ on Sept 11, 2022 12:06:17 GMT
We really need to get rid of this daughters of peers getting percentages thing. In a world where Princess Charlotte outranks Prince Louis, this nonsense needs to end. But separate from this, the roles of Lord Great Chamberlain and Earl Marshal ought to be removed from being connected to specific peerages and become government appointments, just as Lord Privy Seal is. I understand you're a fan of our hereditary monarchy. I am, yes. |
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timmullen1
Labour
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Post by timmullen1 on Oct 20, 2022 12:57:20 GMT
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Post by finsobruce on Oct 20, 2022 13:09:50 GMT
Do either of them fancy combining it with the top job? |
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Oct 20, 2022 13:15:05 GMT
I know Lord Roborough. A sound old family from my part of the county. There is a pub, the Lopes Arms, named after the family.
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 14,759
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Post by J.G.Harston on Oct 20, 2022 14:13:11 GMT
I know Lord Roborough. A sound old family from my part of the county. There is a pub, the Lopes Arms, named after the family. And there's a Minto Road near where I grew up in Sheffield. I had a vague memory it was named after one of the Lords Minto. |
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timmullen1
Labour
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Post by timmullen1 on Oct 20, 2022 15:15:12 GMT
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Post by yellowperil on Oct 20, 2022 15:36:56 GMT
I know the family had connections with my Alma Mater at Exeter. In my day the university library was the Roborough, which about the time I left was replaced by a newer structure which is now the Old Library! The Roborough, one of the early university structures designed by Vincent Harris in his usual galumphing style, had already been changed into a reading library rather than the main repository of books. I know that the surname of the Roboroughs was Lopes (Portuguese Jewish, I think), and in my day Lopes Hall was a student hall of residence for women and I knew a few friends in Lopes - though most of my women friends in those distant days, including Eileen, lived in Hope (which was the other big female hall of residence). |
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