goose
Conservative & Unionist
Posts: 610
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Post by goose on May 15, 2018 17:45:14 GMT
Oh. If I was a Conservative and Unionist I would shit myself on those figures. Confirmed, underwear is brown.
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cogload
Lib Dem
I jumped in the river and what did I see...
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Post by cogload on May 15, 2018 18:06:53 GMT
Well at least goose has an idea which way the wind is blowing.
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Post by beastofbedfordshire on May 15, 2018 18:08:54 GMT
Whoosh
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cogload
Lib Dem
I jumped in the river and what did I see...
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Post by cogload on May 15, 2018 18:51:12 GMT
Whoosh indeed. You whooshing senior Tories as well?
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myth11
Non-Aligned
too busy at work!
Posts: 2,735
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Post by myth11 on May 15, 2018 21:28:31 GMT
Whoosh indeed. You whooshing senior Tories as well? If ni does leave it gives the cons a maj of 3
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cogload
Lib Dem
I jumped in the river and what did I see...
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Post by cogload on May 15, 2018 21:38:24 GMT
If NI leaves then what is the point of the Conservative and Unionist Party?
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myth11
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too busy at work!
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Post by myth11 on May 15, 2018 22:04:48 GMT
If NI leaves then what is the point of the Conservative and Unionist Party? The Liberal Unionists have long disappeared so its just a name esp as the uup left the cons in 1972 with a short lived change of heart from 2009 to 2012.
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colm
Non-Aligned
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Post by colm on May 15, 2018 22:55:17 GMT
Northern Ireland was created with the intention of having a constant protestant majority which would never be under threat. At its creation Northern Ireland had a 2:1 protestant majority. The idea was to have an inbuilt constant governing protestant majority. The fact there any potential poll would even be close was never supposed to be a possibility.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on May 15, 2018 23:00:47 GMT
Part of the problem is in having free movement between the Irish Republic and the UK and then allowing Irish citizens a vote in UK elections. How different would the outcome of such a poll be if it were only open to UK citizens in Northern Ireland (as any referendum should be). For that matter how different might the EU referendum result have been in Northern Ireland had only UK citizens been able to vote (as should have been the case)
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 13,604
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Post by J.G.Harston on May 15, 2018 23:35:44 GMT
Part of the problem is in having free movement between the Irish Republic and the UK and then allowing Irish citizens a vote in UK elections. How different would the outcome of such a poll be if it were only open to UK citizens in Northern Ireland (as any referendum should be). For that matter how different might the EU referendum result have been in Northern Ireland had only UK citizens been able to vote (as should have been the case) It's part of the UK's refusal to acknowledge the Empire has gone (you can have your funny flags and your little parish councils Parliaments, but you're really still British, come here and you can vote and stand for election) and to acknowledge that Ireland is no longer in the UK ("Ireland is not a foreign country" in statute, you can come and go just as through Ireland is Dorset, you can vote and stand for election, you're really British you know).
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spqr
Non-Aligned
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Post by spqr on May 16, 2018 2:44:28 GMT
Part of the problem is in having free movement between the Irish Republic and the UK and then allowing Irish citizens a vote in UK elections. How different would the outcome of such a poll be if it were only open to UK citizens in Northern Ireland (as any referendum should be). For that matter how different might the EU referendum result have been in Northern Ireland had only UK citizens been able to vote (as should have been the case) It's part of the UK's refusal to acknowledge the Empire has gone (you can have your funny flags and your little parish councils Parliaments, but you're really still British, come here and you can vote and stand for election) and to acknowledge that Ireland is no longer in the UK ("Ireland is not a foreign country" in statute, you can come and go just as through Ireland is Dorset, you can vote and stand for election, you're really British you know). Hm. I'm not sure. Constitutional inertia seems a more likely explanation to me than imperial nostalgia.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2018 4:57:32 GMT
If NI leaves then what is the point of the Conservative and Unionist Party? Maintaining the Act of Union 1707. The loss of Ulster, as bad as that may seem would be survivable. The loss of Scotland, or Wales for that matter, would be terminally disastrous for all the home nations.
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Post by Adam in Stroud on May 16, 2018 6:30:28 GMT
It's part of the UK's refusal to acknowledge the Empire has gone (you can have your funny flags and your little parish councils Parliaments, but you're really still British, come here and you can vote and stand for election) and to acknowledge that Ireland is no longer in the UK ("Ireland is not a foreign country" in statute, you can come and go just as through Ireland is Dorset, you can vote and stand for election, you're really British you know). Hm. I'm not sure. Constitutional inertia seems a more likely explanation to me than imperial nostalgia. Yes, though I think the original thinking was along the lines of the OP. Of course at the time there were lots of people in the Free State who did consider themselves really British.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2018 9:51:13 GMT
Part of the problem is in having free movement between the Irish Republic and the UK and then allowing Irish citizens a vote in UK elections. How different would the outcome of such a poll be if it were only open to UK citizens in Northern Ireland (as any referendum should be). For that matter how different might the EU referendum result have been in Northern Ireland had only UK citizens been able to vote (as should have been the case) It's part of the UK's refusal to acknowledge the Empire has gone (you can have your funny flags and your little parish councils Parliaments, but you're really still British, come here and you can vote and stand for election) and to acknowledge that Ireland is no longer in the UK ("Ireland is not a foreign country" in statute, you can come and go just as through Ireland is Dorset, you can vote and stand for election, you're really British you know). if this is the case, shouldn’t US citizens and 1/3 of the world be able to vote in UK elections. If a country is no longer part of the UK then their citizens shouldn’t be able to vote in our elections. As for the empire get over it, it’s in the past and people like you need to move on and forward and stop harping on about the past.
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obsie
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Post by obsie on May 16, 2018 17:40:03 GMT
Part of the problem is in having free movement between the Irish Republic and the UK and then allowing Irish citizens a vote in UK elections. How different would the outcome of such a poll be if it were only open to UK citizens in Northern Ireland (as any referendum should be). For that matter how different might the EU referendum result have been in Northern Ireland had only UK citizens been able to vote (as should have been the case) The last census in 2011 showed 37,833 (2.1% of the population) born in the Republic, not all of whom are going to be of voting age and not all of those are going to be what you would describe as Papists or Fenians. So not very different. I notice from another thread that for all your professed attachment to Northern Ireland you don't seem to ever have set foot in it. Figures.
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Post by Adam in Stroud on May 17, 2018 17:00:24 GMT
If NI leaves then what is the point of the Conservative and Unionist Party? Maintaining the Act of Union 1707. The loss of Ulster, as bad as that may seem would be survivable. The loss of Scotland, or Wales for that matter, would be terminally disastrous for all the home nations.Much as I agree with this, losing NI would be part of a noticeable trend for English Conservatives to lose interest in unionism generally which worries me and would have surprised me 10 years ago. FWIW I blame the rise of the SNP for at least part of it but the view of Scotland as a sink for English money is quite widespread and not unlike the views of the same people on the EU budget. I don't see the SNP getting a majority for independence any time soon and clearly the Scottish Conservatives are selling themselves as the leading unionist party but I can see my party becoming the main advocate of British unionism in England. A revival of SLAB may change that of course.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2018 19:36:31 GMT
Maintaining the Act of Union 1707. The loss of Ulster, as bad as that may seem would be survivable. The loss of Scotland, or Wales for that matter, would be terminally disastrous for all the home nations.Much as I agree with this, losing NI would be part of a noticeable trend for English Conservatives to lose interest in unionism generally which worries me and would have surprised me 10 years ago. FWIW I blame the rise of the SNP for at least part of it but the view of Scotland as a sink for English money is quite widespread and not unlike the views of the same people on the EU budget. I don't see the SNP getting a majority for independence any time soon and clearly the Scottish Conservatives are selling themselves as the leading unionist party but I can see my party becoming the main advocate of British unionism in England. A revival of SLAB may change that of course. I agree that the rise of English nationalist tendencies in some small parts of the English Conservatives for political reasons are worrying. Though the vast majority of people, especially the young, in my party are staunch Unionists. Indeed last year showed that without Scotland Corbyn, with all that would entail about Russia and antisemitism etc., would be PM. That’s a situation the country has never been in before and hopefully one that caused English Nationalists to take stock. The “sink for English money” argument among the English population including some I know is an oddly compelling but false one. It worries me if the UK is seen as the same as the EU as they are not similar in any way and the strange idea of people who believe that England would be a better off and a viable medium sized world power without Scotland or Wales is literally insane. The three main home nations need each other because on our own we are insignificant and will be dominated by the nearby truly global powers of France, Germany, the US and to an extent Russia. As for the Lib Dems, I don’t think you will become the sole Unionist party. I believe this because I don’t think my party will ever abandon the mantle of the Union. My party is interwoven with it, I cannot articulate just how much to most Conservatives the “& Unionist” really means.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on May 17, 2018 20:27:57 GMT
Much as I agree with this, losing NI would be part of a noticeable trend for English Conservatives to lose interest in unionism generally which worries me and would have surprised me 10 years ago. FWIW I blame the rise of the SNP for at least part of it but the view of Scotland as a sink for English money is quite widespread and not unlike the views of the same people on the EU budget. I don't see the SNP getting a majority for independence any time soon and clearly the Scottish Conservatives are selling themselves as the leading unionist party but I can see my party becoming the main advocate of British unionism in England. A revival of SLAB may change that of course. I agree that the rise of English nationalist tendencies in some small parts of the English Conservatives for political reasons are worrying. Though the vast majority of people, especially the young, in my party are staunch Unionists. Indeed last year showed that without Scotland Corbyn, with all that would entail about Russia and antisemitism etc., would be PM. That’s a situation the country has never been in before and hopefully one that caused English Nationalists to take stock... What are you talking about? The Conservatives would have an overall majority in the Commons if you remove the Scottish seats
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2018 22:03:55 GMT
I agree that the rise of English nationalist tendencies in some small parts of the English Conservatives for political reasons are worrying. Though the vast majority of people, especially the young, in my party are staunch Unionists. Indeed last year showed that without Scotland Corbyn, with all that would entail about Russia and antisemitism etc., would be PM. That’s a situation the country has never been in before and hopefully one that caused English Nationalists to take stock... What are you talking about? The Conservatives would have an overall majority in the Commons if you remove the Scottish seats Ok, the rest of my point still stands though.
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cogload
Lib Dem
I jumped in the river and what did I see...
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Post by cogload on Jun 8, 2018 8:09:47 GMT
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