Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2017 19:54:49 GMT
The union has survived hard left governments in westminster so I doubt Brexit will produce much of a dent in the support for Unionism. What does concern me is the continuation of the increase of the catholic population. Steps must be taken to preserve the Union from this specific threat. There was an Austrian chap in the 1930s who had similar thoughts. |
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CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
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Post by CatholicLeft on Dec 8, 2017 20:04:32 GMT
The union has survived hard left governments in westminster so I doubt Brexit will produce much of a dent in the support for Unionism. What does concern me is the continuation of the increase of the catholic population. Steps must be taken to preserve the Union from this specific threat. Seriously? You are obviously going for the Troll of the Year title. |
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Post by AdminSTB on Dec 8, 2017 21:34:35 GMT
The union has survived hard left governments in westminster so I doubt Brexit will produce much of a dent in the support for Unionism. What does concern me is the continuation of the increase of the catholic population. Steps must be taken to preserve the Union from this specific threat. Would you care to outline those steps for us. |
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Post by beastofbedfordshire on Dec 8, 2017 21:42:29 GMT
The union has survived hard left governments in westminster so I doubt Brexit will produce much of a dent in the support for Unionism. What does concern me is the continuation of the increase of the catholic population. Steps must be taken to preserve the Union from this specific threat. Would you care to outline those steps for us. Certainly. As many on here have already said, Protestants are leaving NI to find opportunities elsewhere while the catholic population have a greater tendancy to stay. NI is a key part of our precious Union so we can encourage the economic liberalisation there allowing more private investment to the region. This will encourage more internal migration within the UK which in turn will allign the demographics of NI more closely with the mainland. |
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Post by Arthur Figgis on Dec 8, 2017 21:42:48 GMT
I contacted my local council (Newry & Mourne at the time, as it happens) to ask them what they were doing to counter the risk of a Dalek invasion. They told me steps had been put in place...
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Jack
Reform Party
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Post by Jack on Dec 8, 2017 21:52:58 GMT
I contacted my local council (Newry & Mourne at the time, as it happens) to ask them what they were doing to counter the risk of a Dalek invasion. They told me steps had been put in place...  |
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obsie
Non-Aligned
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Post by obsie on Dec 8, 2017 23:00:45 GMT
Polls have consistently indicated support for remaining in the Union since Brexit is between 63-70% in Northern Ireland. Because of that, I'm not going to take a single out-of-line poll with strange wording at face value. This poll doesn't even fit in with recent election results in Northern Ireland or census returns, where British/Unionists make up around 50%+. Actually the voting intention figures in the poll, in terms of the total Unionist and Nationalist blocs, are not greatly different from previous elections. Unionism has been significantly below 50% in both the last Assembly and Westminster elections. You can reasonably argue that the question posed is a worst-case hypothetical and that the phrasing ("remain in the EU") is marginally more likely to produce a positive answer (although I doubt if it's going to confuse many people). But pretending that Brexit, the push within the Tory party towards a British nationalist isolationism, and the continuing behaviour of the Tory government in alliance with one party in Northern Ireland, acting as if the DUP are the only voices worth listening to in NI, are not antagonising the centre of the electorate (moderate Nationalists happy with the pre-Brexit status quo, some liberal small-u unionists, "none of the aboves", and even the largely mythical Catholic Unionists) is wilful blindness. |
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Post by Arthur Figgis on Dec 8, 2017 23:09:08 GMT
Polls have consistently indicated support for remaining in the Union since Brexit is between 63-70% in Northern Ireland. Because of that, I'm not going to take a single out-of-line poll with strange wording at face value. This poll doesn't even fit in with recent election results in Northern Ireland or census returns, where British/Unionists make up around 50%+. Actually the voting intention figures in the poll, in terms of the total Unionist and Nationalist blocs, are not greatly different from previous elections. Unionism has been significantly below 50% in both the last Assembly and Westminster elections. You can reasonably argue that the question posed is a worst-case hypothetical and that the phrasing ("remain in the EU") is marginally more likely to produce a positive answer (although I doubt if it's going to confuse many people). But pretending that Brexit, the push within the Tory party towards a British nationalist isolationism, and the continuing behaviour of the Tory government in alliance with one party in Northern Ireland, acting as if the DUP are the only voices worth listening to in NI, are not antagonising the centre of the electorate (moderate Nationalists happy with the pre-Brexit status quo, some liberal small-u unionists, "none of the aboves", and even the largely mythical Catholic Unionists) is wilful blindness. *waves* |
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obsie
Non-Aligned
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Post by obsie on Dec 8, 2017 23:10:37 GMT
Would you care to outline those steps for us. Certainly. As many on here have already said, Protestants are leaving NI to find opportunities elsewhere while the catholic population have a greater tendancy to stay. NI is a key part of our precious Union so we can encourage the economic liberalisation there allowing more private investment to the region. This will encourage more internal migration within the UK which in turn will allign the demographics of NI more closely with the mainland. Ulster Plantation 2.0 really seems like a brilliant plan to make Northern Ireland more stable and prosperous. No risk of things kicking off again at all. Tell me, how many hours Internet access do you get in Ward 8 of Broadmoor? |
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obsie
Non-Aligned
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Post by obsie on Dec 8, 2017 23:11:39 GMT
Actually the voting intention figures in the poll, in terms of the total Unionist and Nationalist blocs, are not greatly different from previous elections. Unionism has been significantly below 50% in both the last Assembly and Westminster elections. You can reasonably argue that the question posed is a worst-case hypothetical and that the phrasing ("remain in the EU") is marginally more likely to produce a positive answer (although I doubt if it's going to confuse many people). But pretending that Brexit, the push within the Tory party towards a British nationalist isolationism, and the continuing behaviour of the Tory government in alliance with one party in Northern Ireland, acting as if the DUP are the only voices worth listening to in NI, are not antagonising the centre of the electorate (moderate Nationalists happy with the pre-Brexit status quo, some liberal small-u unionists, "none of the aboves", and even the largely mythical Catholic Unionists) is wilful blindness. *waves* I did say "largely". |
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Post by Arthur Figgis on Dec 8, 2017 23:12:09 GMT
We haven’t gone away you know. |
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obsie
Non-Aligned
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Post by obsie on Dec 8, 2017 23:14:28 GMT
We haven’t gone away you know. No order to dump royal wedding mugs then? |
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Post by Arthur Figgis on Dec 8, 2017 23:16:06 GMT
We haven’t gone away you know. No order to dump royal wedding mugs then? No more than Wee County folk stockpile sniper rifles and JPII mugs. We are real people not stereotypes, you know. |
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obsie
Non-Aligned
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Post by obsie on Dec 8, 2017 23:19:45 GMT
No order to dump royal wedding mugs then? No more than Wee County folk stockpile sniper rifles and JPII mugs. We are real people not stereotypes, you know. I'm sure you are, but it's just that there aren't an awful lot of you in the greater scheme of things. (And I think you're mixing me up with Irish Observer - I'm not from Louth.) |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2017 23:20:21 GMT
and my father was a atheist supporting hearts nationalist
Someone must inform your council that daleks can fly
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Post by Arthur Figgis on Dec 8, 2017 23:45:39 GMT
No more than Wee County folk stockpile sniper rifles and JPII mugs. We are real people not stereotypes, you know. I'm sure you are, but it's just that there aren't an awful lot of you in the greater scheme of things. (And I think you're mixing me up with Irish Observer - I'm not from Louth.) More than you'd imagine. While anecdote does not pluralise as data, I was very amused when leaving Newry Town FC (as was) about 12 years ago and having sectarian abuse shouted at us 'Orange bastard' Bangor fans- all 12 of us in that group were Catholics, and I know from many heated discussions on the way back from away games that all supported the continuation of the Unon. Didn't change the fact that we'd lost in the play-offs again, mind. Now, North Down is not normal for Ulster (and as a southern Mourne man, Newcastle counts as North Down anyway), but there's a hell of a lot of us out there. Oh, and apologies for the confusion- I can't imagine many worse insults than being thought of as a Dundalk man. (part from being confused as a Armagh man- I rightfully abuse a mate for being an orange bastard- hes's from the Garvaghy Road and now lives in deepest West Belfast. Up Down! Mainly down  ) |
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maxque
Non-Aligned
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Post by maxque on Dec 9, 2017 3:56:56 GMT
Would you care to outline those steps for us. Certainly. As many on here have already said, Protestants are leaving NI to find opportunities elsewhere while the catholic population have a greater tendancy to stay. NI is a key part of our precious Union so we can encourage the economic liberalisation there allowing more private investment to the region. This will encourage more internal migration within the UK which in turn will allign the demographics of NI more closely with the mainland. The issue is than almost no company wants to settle there. It's politically unstable and infrastructure is on Eastern Europe levels (including roads). |
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jamie
Top Poster
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Post by jamie on Dec 9, 2017 23:15:21 GMT
Will be interesting to see if this result is replicated in any future polls. Have to agree with ntyuk1707 that it doesn't look trustworthy considering past polls have 65%+ support for the union. The question itself and the numerous questions beforehand are not exactly neutral regarding the merits of the EU/Brexit, and LucidTalk in the past have generally underrepresented the DUP (by a lot at the GE) and overestimated 'moderate' parties which likely means they under sample the number of 'hard' unionists. Also, those nationality numbers are way out. Yes, they probably narrowed since the census, but those numbers are completely contradictory to actual official data we have on national identity. |
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Dec 10, 2017 3:10:41 GMT
Yes, but it has never been this close before. Not saying it is true, but.... Being within the margin of error is pretty uncomfortable for those of us who are in favour of the UK, especially as this simply wasn't a live issue two years ago. As with most polls a consistent trend will worry memory than a one-off. (I daresay neilm will be happy enough and hoping for a similar move in Scotland!) You are quite correct! |
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Post by therealriga on Dec 10, 2017 12:20:02 GMT
(and as a southern Mourne man, Newcastle counts as North Down anyway) Good luck arguing that at a Boundary Commission hearing.  |
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