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Post by riccimarsh on Oct 6, 2024 20:34:59 GMT
I would not have enjoyed or welcomed this referendum. I am gay, and my family, while not explicitly anti-gay, aren’t exactly out waving rainbow flags every pride weekend either. We have a happy situation where it is never talked about, and that suits us all (I don’t yet have reason to suspect my own gay marriage might be imminent, which could complicate things).
To have this issue thrust into the national spotlight and to expect every person to take a stance on it would have been troubling and, for my family, would upset our status quo. I suspect at least some of my close family would have voted against gay marriage. So, I was/am happy and relieved that this passed via the regular rough and tumble of politics rather than being made into the massive deal it could have been had a referendum been called.
The fact that a Conservative (coalition) government introduced it was also a best case scenario imo. People like my family just shrugged and moved on. If Labour had tried to introduce it, they would have been outraged. Simply for political reasons, marriage equality was best introduced by a Conservative government. In the same way real, meaningful reform of the NHS can probably only be done by Labour. The alternative is too toxic.
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Post by uthacalthing on Oct 6, 2024 22:37:37 GMT
I would not have enjoyed or welcomed this referendum. I am gay, and my family, while not explicitly anti-gay, aren’t exactly out waving rainbow flags every pride weekend either. We have a happy situation where it is never talked about, This is precisely the point that was missed over Trans self ID. What we had was dont ask dont tell and society were for the msot part fairy tolerant. Once that became an assertion that it was a human right to compel others to indicate their acceptance of situation that they had until now been polite enough to ignore the exreta was always about to hit the expelaire |
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Post by edgbaston on Oct 6, 2024 23:00:43 GMT
I would not have enjoyed or welcomed this referendum. I am gay, and my family, while not explicitly anti-gay, aren’t exactly out waving rainbow flags every pride weekend either. We have a happy situation where it is never talked about, This is precisely the point that was missed over Trans self ID. What we had was dont ask dont tell and society were for the msot part fairy tolerant. Once that became an assertion that it was a human right to compel others to indicate their acceptance of situation that they had until now been polite enough to ignore the exreta was always about to hit the expelaire I agree that barely anyone used to care about this issue. Then people were made to care, a moral panic was whipped up by the media. People started examining the bone structure of people going about their daily business. Started to read child abuse and sexual assault conspiracy theories online. You say people were forced to accept a situation and that’s why they became angry, this just isn’t what happened. |
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sanders
Green
Posts: 2,991 
Member is Online
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Post by sanders on Oct 7, 2024 4:25:32 GMT
Referendums are divisive things, aren't they? Legislating is usually far more elegant. I say this as a fan of referenda. Who would have seriously said this needs a referendum. It's nothing like Brexit where the outcome impacted everyone regardless of whether they voted Leave, Remain or not at all. Issues of private lifestyle and sexual preferences shouldn't be the purview of the state under any circumstance. Because if you can have a referendum on this, you can have one on trans rights, etc.
On the other hand, referendums on the Euro, ECHR, net zero etc would be far more interesting.
As I recall, I was anti-gay marriage in 2013 - I employed the slippery slope argument back then.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,889
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Post by The Bishop on Oct 7, 2024 10:41:02 GMT
This is precisely the point that was missed over Trans self ID. What we had was dont ask dont tell and society were for the msot part fairy tolerant. Once that became an assertion that it was a human right to compel others to indicate their acceptance of situation that they had until now been polite enough to ignore the exreta was always about to hit the expelaire I agree that barely anyone used to care about this issue. Then people were made to care, a moral panic was whipped up by the media. People started examining the bone structure of people going about their daily business. Started to read child abuse and sexual assault conspiracy theories online. You say people were forced to accept a situation and that’s why they became angry, this just isn’t what happened. Some truth in this. But people also instinctively and overwhelmingly think that having very masculine trans women competing in female only sports events is wrong. If the likes of Stonewall had been willing to concede on this sort of thing rather than sticking rigidly to "NO DEBATE" then quite a lot of unpleasantness might have been avoided. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Oct 7, 2024 14:59:19 GMT
I agree that barely anyone used to care about this issue. Then people were made to care, a moral panic was whipped up by the media. People started examining the bone structure of people going about their daily business. Started to read child abuse and sexual assault conspiracy theories online. You say people were forced to accept a situation and that’s why they became angry, this just isn’t what happened. Some truth in this. But people also instinctively and overwhelmingly think that having very masculine trans women competing in female only sports events is wrong. If the likes of Stonewall had been willing to concede on this rather than sticking rigidly to "NO DEBATE" then quite a lot of unpleasantness might have been avoided. A cynic might argue that a lot of people make a lot of money out of absolutism and opposing Other People. |
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