Tony Otim
Green
Suffering from Brexistential Despair
Posts: 11,746
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Post by Tony Otim on Aug 16, 2024 15:07:57 GMT
Because it’s done by a computer not a human But the computer is programmed by a human and could easily have been set up to present results formatted in a sensible way. A lot of computer programmers are highly intelligent morons. The real answer is that the programme is written for elections when fractions of votes need to be counted and it just ain't worth the bother to re-write it for the limited number of by-elections.
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Post by sanders on Aug 16, 2024 15:10:20 GMT
Yet another identikit London Labour councillor. Why do I say that? She works for a think tank, is middle class, high earning, isn't a renter and doesn't live on a council estate. She is based in Barnsbury, FFS?
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Tony Otim
Green
Suffering from Brexistential Despair
Posts: 11,746
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Post by Tony Otim on Aug 16, 2024 15:10:42 GMT
I think a good place to start is to ask yourself why, despite actively campaigning, your sense of what was happening in the ward was so far out from the actual result? You can have an active campaign and a poor result. Sometimes circumstances just lead that way, but you should at least be picking up some sense of which way the wine's blowing... I only canvassed about five people. Which was rather my point...
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Post by sanders on Aug 16, 2024 15:21:35 GMT
I think Labour did best in Whitehall Park where you had the most Labour posters. I saw no Labour posters in Crouch Hill, Hornsey Rice or the areas bordering Tollington. Nice inoffensive Oxbridge-educated think tank person - oozes middle class sensibility from where I'm sat. I think my new party may make more progress in 2024. Labour did lose Hillrise in the 1990s and there's a clearly a market for a unified anti-Labour vote. 40% from 60% is hilarious. As is 2.4% of course.
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Post by certain on Aug 16, 2024 15:21:56 GMT
But the computer is programmed by a human and could easily have been set up to present results formatted in a sensible way. A lot of computer programmers are highly intelligent morons. The computer could have been programmed to stop at the correct 5th stage, and not go on to the illogical incorrect pointless 6th stage. Indeed. The programmer should have read all the Rules, which he or she clearly did not. And should then have realised that single-seat contests are best treated as a special category, which would get rid of all the ridiculous decimal zeros.
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 15,589
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Post by john07 on Aug 16, 2024 15:39:18 GMT
But the computer is programmed by a human and could easily have been set up to present results formatted in a sensible way. A lot of computer programmers are highly intelligent morons. The real answer is that the programme is written for elections when fractions of votes need to be counted and it just ain't worth the bother to re-write it for the limited number of by-elections. But do you really need a programme to count an AV election? It’s not exactly rocket science. Presenting the results like that does come across as amateurish. Presumably the consultants who designed the software were very well paid and could easily have a filter in to format the results in integers. Besides I am very dubious of using AV to fill vacancies in a body elected by STV as it could distort the true wishes of the electorate. This makes the whole thing something of a lottery. There are no by-elections with list proportional representation system. I think some sort of co-option process could be used for bodies elected under STV.
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Post by batman on Aug 16, 2024 15:50:10 GMT
The attempt to analyse where the second independent candidate's 54 votes came from was sort of interesting, but was based on no evidence. If you don't canvass, you have literally no idea where your vote, such as it is, comes from.
I will attempt to get a Rabbi to say a broche for this thread as it has become very long.
I fail to see why it is so apparently heinous that the successful Labour candidate comes from Barnsbury. It's hardly at the other end of the earth and at least has the virtue of being in the same borough where the election was taking place. It might be better if people judge candidates or councillors on what they say and do rather than go down this petty ultra-parochial route.
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Post by sanders on Aug 16, 2024 16:01:43 GMT
The attempt to analyse where the second independent candidate's 54 votes came from was sort of interesting, but was based on no evidence. If you don't canvass, you have literally no idea where your vote, such as it is, comes from. I will attempt to get a Rabbi to say a broche for this thread as it has become very long. I fail to see why it is so apparently heinous that the successful Labour candidate comes from Barnsbury. It's hardly at the other end of the earth and at least has the virtue of being in the same borough where the election was taking place. It might be better if people judge candidates or councillors on what they say and do rather than go down this petty ultra-parochial route. It’s the other end of Islington. N1 is a ways from Hillrise. If you are in Barnsbury area. The Tamil Prince is very good.
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Post by batman on Aug 16, 2024 16:03:50 GMT
So damn what? Yes of course I have been to Islington, and it is not a very large borough. As it happens, we have a family friend who is now dying who was once a Labour councillor for Barnsbury, so naturally I know where it is in relation to Hillrise. He is a marvellous man, originally from Yorkshire. Barnsbury appears to be about 2 miles away from the southern ward boundary of Hillrise ward so the point is an incredibly parochial & pretty typically pathetic one.
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Post by No Offence Alan on Aug 16, 2024 16:03:52 GMT
The attempt to analyse where the second independent candidate's 54 votes came from was sort of interesting, but was based on no evidence. If you don't canvass, you have literally no idea where your vote, such as it is, comes from. I will attempt to get a Rabbi to say a broche for this thread as it has become very long. I fail to see why it is so apparently heinous that the successful Labour candidate comes from Barnsbury. It's hardly at the other end of the earth and at least has the virtue of being in the same borough where the election was taking place. It might be better if people judge candidates or councillors on what they say and do rather than go down this petty ultra-parochial route. It’s the other end of Islington. N1 is a ways from Hillrise. If you are in Barnsbury area. The Tamil Prince is pretty excellent. Try campaigning in Argyll and Bute.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Aug 16, 2024 16:07:53 GMT
The Islington result suggests that a Corbyn endorsement isn’t a coupon securing success and that he’ll trundle along getting older (79 or 80 at the next election ) without having a much wider impact? He’ll be free to get into the things that interest him and will, no doubt, find allies on some of those. A bit like much of his time before he became leader - mostly ignored but he did his thing. This may be the most significant feature of this by-election (other than that other matter) and one that will provide encouragement to the Labour leadership.
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Post by owainsutton on Aug 16, 2024 16:12:36 GMT
But the computer is programmed by a human and could easily have been set up to present results formatted in a sensible way. A lot of computer programmers are highly intelligent morons. The real answer is that the programme is written for elections when fractions of votes need to be counted and it just ain't worth the bother to re-write it for the limited number of by-elections. Plus, writing extra code for exceptions opens up the potential for new errors, or exceptions, to emerge.
The number of times we've had to decide whether to round our bar-chart percentages correctly, or fudge them so that nobody complains that they total 99 or 101....including five decimal places can be tempting.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Aug 16, 2024 16:13:06 GMT
I think Labour did best in Whitehall Park where you had the most Labour posters. I saw no Labour posters in Crouch Hill, Hornsey Rice or the areas bordering Tollington. Nice inoffensive Oxbridge-educated think tank person - oozes middle class sensibility from where I'm sat. I think my new party may make more progress in 2024. Labour did lose Hillrise in the 1990s and there's a clearly a market for a unified anti-Labour vote. 40% from 60% is hilarious. As is 2.4% of course. Do you mean an existing party you may join or are we to be treated to a new party?
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r34t
Non-Aligned
Posts: 1,115
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Post by r34t on Aug 16, 2024 16:13:13 GMT
The Islington result suggests that a Corbyn endorsement isn’t a coupon securing success and that he’ll trundle along getting older (79 or 80 at the next election ) without having a much wider impact? He’ll be free to get into the things that interest him and will, no doubt, find allies on some of those. A bit like much of his time before he became leader - mostly ignored but he did his thing. This may be the most significant feature of this by-election (other than that other matter) and one that will provide encouragement to the Labour leadership. Agreed. I thought the Corby Indie would do better, but of course there was no official laying on of hands.
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Post by finsobruce on Aug 16, 2024 16:16:24 GMT
Proper leaflets and canvassing people, eh? I might have to try those. I think a good place to start is to ask yourself why, despite actively campaigning, your sense of what was happening in the ward was so far out from the actual result? You can have an active campaign and a poor result. Sometimes circumstances just lead that way, but you should at least be picking up some sense of which way the wine's blowing...It didn't live up to his grape expectations?
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Post by finsobruce on Aug 16, 2024 16:18:03 GMT
Yet another identikit London Labour councillor. Why do I say that? She works for a think tank, is middle class, high earning, isn't a renter and doesn't live on a council estate. Change think tank for trade union and you have Jeremy Corbyn.
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r34t
Non-Aligned
Posts: 1,115
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Post by r34t on Aug 16, 2024 16:18:20 GMT
I think Labour did best in Whitehall Park where you had the most Labour posters. I saw no Labour posters in Crouch Hill, Hornsey Rice or the areas bordering Tollington. Nice inoffensive Oxbridge-educated think tank person - oozes middle class sensibility from where I'm sat. I think my new party may make more progress in 2024. Labour did lose Hillrise in the 1990s and there's a clearly a market for a unified anti-Labour vote. 40% from 60% is hilarious. As is 2.4% of course. Unless you box sampled at the count & have actual stats then this is pure guess work. If you are ever to be successful electorally then you need to understand your own strengths & weaknesses. Your lack of a ‘political antennae’ is a weakness. Your guesses during this election, I’m afraid, were invariably wrong.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Aug 16, 2024 16:19:26 GMT
So damn what? Yes of course I have been to Islington, and it is not a very large borough. As it happens, we have a family friend who is now dying who was once a Labour councillor for Barnsbury, so naturally I know where it is in relation to Hillrise. He is a marvellous man, originally from Yorkshire. Barnsbury appears to be about 2 miles away from the southern ward boundary of Hillrise ward so the point is an incredibly parochial & pretty typically pathetic one. I note that the carpetbagger from miles away got 18 votes* for every 1 secured by the local candidate with a particular interest in Archway Steps. I have rounded to a whole figure rather than going to 5 decimal places.
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Post by finsobruce on Aug 16, 2024 16:20:37 GMT
The results were known last night but were embargoed.... How can the results be embargoed? The agents told but no formal declaration made? Or the declaration made but then all present warned to stay quiet? If the latter how can that be a proper declaration? Surely as a forum regular you should be aware that anything is fair game for a pun?
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Post by sanders on Aug 16, 2024 16:22:21 GMT
So damn what? Yes of course I have been to Islington, and it is not a very large borough. As it happens, we have a family friend who is now dying who was once a Labour councillor for Barnsbury, so naturally I know where it is in relation to Hillrise. He is a marvellous man, originally from Yorkshire. Barnsbury appears to be about 2 miles away from the southern ward boundary of Hillrise ward so the point is an incredibly parochial & pretty typically pathetic one. To be fair, didn't you try out for Cities of London & Westminster while living in bloody Richmond? I guess you like carpetbagging? Nargund is also Barnsbury based IIRC. Same as Sir Tony Blair was. Labour isn't an Islington party, it's a Barnsbury party. I've also worked there, and it's a fairly elitist area aside from council housing.
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