right
Conservative
Posts: 18,761
|
Post by right on Jun 17, 2024 19:55:59 GMT
But the Irish population if not exactly having an interest, do see it as a wound and will vote in North Korean (or at the least Putinesque) margins when the subject comes up But I don’t think they will give NI special treatment with the assembly likely the first thing to go. Why's that? Irish politicians across the spectrum (although Sinn Fein is probably iffy) have specifically said that there will need to be special northern institutions, and getting rid of the one obvious one seems to be a bad way to start that process. The current Irish constitution is probably too unitary to accommodate that arrangement, but Irish politicians are quite open that this needs changed. Whether they could get the change through would be another matter, but that would be the represented rather than the representatives. |
|
myth11
Non-Aligned
too busy at work!
Posts: 2,839 
|
Post by myth11 on Jun 17, 2024 20:08:46 GMT
But I don’t think they will give NI special treatment with the assembly likely the first thing to go. Why's that? Irish politicians across the spectrum (although Sinn Fein is probably iffy) have specifically said that there will need to be special northern institutions, and getting rid of the one obvious one seems to be a bad way to start that process. The current Irish constitution is probably too unitary to accommodate that arrangement, but Irish politicians are quite open that this needs changed. Whether they could get the change through would be another matter, but that would be the represented rather than the representatives. Money mainly as they may be richer than the UK on per capita basis but 10 billion or so needed to keep NI going as it is will be a big ask. |
|
stb12
Top Poster
Posts: 8,366
|
Post by stb12 on Jun 17, 2024 20:10:16 GMT
Why's that? Irish politicians across the spectrum (although Sinn Fein is probably iffy) have specifically said that there will need to be special northern institutions, and getting rid of the one obvious one seems to be a bad way to start that process. The current Irish constitution is probably too unitary to accommodate that arrangement, but Irish politicians are quite open that this needs changed. Whether they could get the change through would be another matter, but that would be the represented rather than the representatives. Money mainly as they may be richer than the UK on per capita basis but 10 billion or so needed to keep NI going as it is will be a big ask. But some kind of steady transition at least will probably be seen as necessary for peace reasons |
|
|
|
Post by irish observer on Jun 18, 2024 13:39:17 GMT
SF have a good candidate here and will retain Gildernew's seat.
|
|
right
Conservative
Posts: 18,761
|
Post by right on Jun 18, 2024 19:53:26 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by No Offence Alan on Jun 18, 2024 19:56:53 GMT
Always nice to know how NI will be spending GB taxpayers' money. |
|
stb12
Top Poster
Posts: 8,366
|
Post by stb12 on Jun 18, 2024 20:09:39 GMT
She is the daughter of Harry West, former UUP leader, briefly the MP for this constituency during the short 1974 Parliament, also the losing UUP candidate in the Bobby Sands by-election |
|
|
|
Post by irish observer on Jun 18, 2024 23:15:41 GMT
Arguably one of the UUPs remaining strongholds but still SF win.
|
|
|
|
Post by East Anglian Lefty on Jun 19, 2024 12:06:43 GMT
If truth be known, they wouldn't want Northern Ireland. Maybe start small. Give NI Donegal and take Fermanagh, say, do it in installments, it's not like Irish history has moved quickly before* *Tongue only partly in cheek. OK, own up. Who let dok be possessed by Margaret Thatcher's unquiet ghost? |
|
|
|
Post by ntyuk1707 on Jun 19, 2024 19:20:02 GMT
|
|
right
Conservative
Posts: 18,761
|
Post by right on Jun 25, 2024 21:56:05 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by ntyuk1707 on Jun 25, 2024 22:54:17 GMT
That UUP leaflet stands out as the most shoddy looking. Interesting that the SDLP's leaflet is indistinguishable from the UK Labour Party and draws on the party's links to UK Labour. |
|
john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 15,774
|
Post by john07 on Jun 26, 2024 0:53:34 GMT
Interesting that the SDLP's leaflet is indistinguishable from the UK Labour Party and draws on the party's links to UK Labour. I think that fitted in the original idea behind the creation of the SDLP. Before that the Northern Ireland Labour Party, Republican Labour, the Irish Labour Party, Nationalist Party, and a variety of Independent Nationalists, tried to oppose Unionist rule. The NILP had been broadly unionist whilst others were more nationist or republican in outlook. Many names incuding Gerry Fitt, David Bleakley, Paddy Devlin, John Hume, Ivan Cooper, Paddy O'Hanlan, etc., emerged in the various, often short-lived parties. The Labour Party was reluctant to embroil itself in the Northern Irish maelstrom. The formation of the SDLP was an attempt to unite those opposed to the Ulster Unionists. The SDLP was originally intended to be a Labour-friendly party. The SDLP succeeded for a while with the Official IRA's Republical Clubs gaining little traction. However once the Provisional Sinn Fein seriously entered mainstream politics, this soon marginalised the SDLP. p |
|
|
|
Post by ntyuk1707 on Jun 26, 2024 6:00:02 GMT
Interesting that the SDLP's leaflet is indistinguishable from the UK Labour Party and draws on the party's links to UK Labour. I think that fitted in the original idea behind the creation of the SDLP. Before that the Northern Ireland Labour Party, Republican Labour, the Irish Labour Party, Nationalist Party, and a variety of Independent Nationalists, tried to oppose Unionist rule. The NILP had been broadly unionist whilst others were more nationist or republican in outlook. Many names incuding Gerry Fitt, David Bleakley, Paddy Devlin, John Hume, Ivan Cooper, Paddy O'Hanlan, etc., emerged in the various, often short-lived parties. The Labour Party was reluctant to embroil itself in the Northern Irish maelstrom. The formation of the SDLP was an attempt to unite those opposed to the Ulster Unionists. The SDLP was originally intended to be a Labour-friendly party. The SDLP succeeded for a while with the Official IRA's Republical Clubs gaining little traction. However once the Provisional Sinn Fein seriously entered mainstream politics, this soon marginalised the SDLP. p I understand that the party relies on soft unionist/middle-of-the-road type voters, especially in Belfast South, but this does seem to be pretty disingenuous to me. You would not think that the SDLP were a nationalist party with this sort of election literature, or indeed a separate political party from UK Labour. |
|
right
Conservative
Posts: 18,761
|
Post by right on Jun 26, 2024 6:56:22 GMT
I think that fitted in the original idea behind the creation of the SDLP. Before that the Northern Ireland Labour Party, Republican Labour, the Irish Labour Party, Nationalist Party, and a variety of Independent Nationalists, tried to oppose Unionist rule. The NILP had been broadly unionist whilst others were more nationist or republican in outlook. Many names incuding Gerry Fitt, David Bleakley, Paddy Devlin, John Hume, Ivan Cooper, Paddy O'Hanlan, etc., emerged in the various, often short-lived parties. The Labour Party was reluctant to embroil itself in the Northern Irish maelstrom. The formation of the SDLP was an attempt to unite those opposed to the Ulster Unionists. The SDLP was originally intended to be a Labour-friendly party. The SDLP succeeded for a while with the Official IRA's Republical Clubs gaining little traction. However once the Provisional Sinn Fein seriously entered mainstream politics, this soon marginalised the SDLP. p I understand that the party relies on soft unionist/middle-of-the-road type voters, especially in Belfast South, but this does seem to be pretty disingenuous to me. You would not think that the SDLP were a nationalist party with this sort of election literature, or indeed a separate political party from UK Labour. They're aiming at a subset of the Catholic community in this part of the world. They can't out-nationalist Sinn Fein, so they have to say that will work with the incoming government to bring goodies. They're not looking to win, just to get enough votes from Sinn Fein to deny them the seat and then show that in the next election that they could be a good bet to keep the Unionist out. |
|
|
|
Post by ntyuk1707 on Jun 26, 2024 7:44:36 GMT
I understand that the party relies on soft unionist/middle-of-the-road type voters, especially in Belfast South, but this does seem to be pretty disingenuous to me. You would not think that the SDLP were a nationalist party with this sort of election literature, or indeed a separate political party from UK Labour. They're aiming at a subset of the Catholic community in this part of the world. They can't out-nationalist Sinn Fein, so they have to say that will work with the incoming government to bring goodies. They're not looking to win, just to get enough votes from Sinn Fein to deny them the seat and then show that in the next election that they could be a good bet to keep the Unionist out. Have you seen the leaflet? Would seem to me they are targeting prospective Alliance/UUP voters in places like Belfast South. |
|
|
|
Post by East Anglian Lefty on Jun 26, 2024 10:04:01 GMT
I haven't yet seen it, but I'm told that the SDLP leaflet in East Londonderry primarily concentrates on Gaza, so I think the messaging in non-target seats varies from candidate to candidate.
|
|
obsie
Non-Aligned
Posts: 861
|
Post by obsie on Jun 26, 2024 15:40:12 GMT
I haven't yet seen it, but I'm told that the SDLP leaflet in East Londonderry primarily concentrates on Gaza, so I think the messaging in non-target seats varies from candidate to candidate. I remain to be convinced that trying to out-disso the Shinners is a good strategy for the SDLP, but who am I to question the strategic nous of the galaxy brains in charge.
Having driven through a chunk of Fermanagh last night on my way to Enniskillen, I would say that they're expending a lot of effort in terms of posters for a constituency where they will be doing well to hold their deposit.
|
|
stb12
Top Poster
Posts: 8,366
|
Post by stb12 on Jun 26, 2024 15:51:30 GMT
I haven't yet seen it, but I'm told that the SDLP leaflet in East Londonderry primarily concentrates on Gaza, so I think the messaging in non-target seats varies from candidate to candidate. I remain to be convinced that trying to out-disso the Shinners is a good strategy for the SDLP, but who am I to question the strategic nous of the galaxy brains in charge.
Having driven through a chunk of Fermanagh last night on my way to Enniskillen, I would say that they're expending a lot of effort in terms of posters for a constituency where they will be doing well to hold their deposit.
There will probably be an element of trying to rebuild a base to help get them in the hunt for an Assembly seat again |
|
|
|
Post by irish observer on Jun 26, 2024 17:24:08 GMT
Hard to see them getting it back though. SDLP have been struggling here ever since retirement of Tommy Gallagher. SF have always been pre-dominant here basically since the death of Frank Maguire.
|
|
